Conflicting information. I have notes on my PC at home which (confirmed) fly is the placeholder. Will update later. --Daniel 06:30, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

What's conflicting? It says that Damselflies are the placeholders. Are you reading it wrong? It says the damselflies between some other mobs, did you think it said both mobs? Hope that helps --Chrisjander 07:04, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

First statement reads: Lottery spawn from the first Damselfly of four in between the Snippers and Thread Leeches in the WideScan. (This if confirmed 100%)

Second reads: When using Widescan, Valkurm Emperor is the fifth Damselfly of five listed immediately before leeches.

First of Four and Fifth of Five. This is incorrect. There is only one placeholder. One of those statements is correct though. I just don't know which off the top of my head. --Daniel 07:15, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

The second statement. He is the Fourth of four when he pops. The placeholder does not pop when he does. --Kienis 11:14, 24 December 2008 (PST)

I think I misunderstood the last statement. it's not actually talking about a placeholder, it's describing where in the list VE is. I checked and confirmed that VE's placeholder is the First of four, but the widescan position information is wrong. My wording is terrible, so I'll let someone else Edit.

Valkurm Emperor's position on the list, is at the bottom of the placeholder group. This group would normally contain 4 Flys, but with the Placeholder dead (Top of the list), VE occupies the 4th position of the list.

Example (Placeholder):

  • Snipper
  • Damselfly <- Placeholder
  • Damselfly
  • Damselfly
  • Damselfly
  • Thread Leech

Example (VE):

  • Snipper
  • Damselfly
  • Damselfly
  • Damselfly
  • Valkurm Emperor
  • Thread Leech

--Daniel 08:08, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

It is not necessarily the first of the four place holders. I just finished camping VE, and I killed all four flies each time (wait for all four to spawn, then kill all). But I would kill the first listed one first everytime. VE popped on the second mob, not the first. --Mierin 08:54, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

I tested this today and only killed the first of 4 like --Daniel described and within 5 min VE spawned, thanks --Tolond 11:50, 7 July 2008 (CDT)

I just killed Valkurm Emperor. The PH is definately not the first one of the 4, so i just killed all of the flies. Eventually, VE popped. And, Valkurm Emperor is NOT listed on Widescan in that position. I've seen him at many different places. --Judaine 07:16, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks, Rixie. --Daniel 08:37, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

-D --Rixie 09:05, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

Place Holder Confirmation

the 1st of the 4 damselfly is 100% confirmed to be the Place Holder for Valkurm Emperor. VE will appear as the 4th in the list once the PH is dead.

Spent many hours killing the other Damselfy in the group to no avail.

Repop time seems to be very consistent at ~1hour (not 100% but very high probability) if you kill the correct PH every 5 minutes.

The PH can spawn over large area, from the far west wall on the edge of (D-8)/(E-8) all the way to the East side of (F-8) and all the way north to the top of (E-8)/(F-8) as well.

VE appears to pop in a slightly smaller area than the PH but this is not confirmed.

3 drops out of 12 kills, indicates ~25% drop rate, without Treasure Hunter. --Synap 16:07, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

thats not enough data to confirm that. Ive killed the damn thing 12 times, with TH2, no drops. Maybe I'm just unlucky... then again, maybe your
The last two times in the dunes I was completely alone (no other campers) as PLD65/RNG10, killing ONLY the 1st damselfly in the list (I can validate this because I habitually checked Wide Scan every 30 seconds. The other 3 Damselflies remained untouched. The first time, VE took ~2hrs to spawn (5:30PM-7:30PM exactly). The second time, VE took ~1hr to spawn (2:04AM-3:17AM). Wriko 08:35, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

3 for 12 is lucky... its probably a bit of both. The sample rate is too small to call that accurate. --Avanent 04:04, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

Can we add some of this to the article? It says "look at the talk page", which I think is a bad thing for the article to do. Is this "confirmed" enough to move over the details to the actual page?

I'm pretty sure the first fly is not the PH ..... and not even the 2nd one it popped with the third one soooooo ! I think it is lottery from the four flies. So far 0/4 on the drop and 4/6 on the claim.

I'm 0/16 on drops, and 16/17 on claims. I can completely confirm that the first damselfly is the PH. I'm leaning towards it not being a 25% drop. Got it 1/17 about 10 seconds after I posted that. -Byrthnoth 09:18, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

As I stated above, I had it pop on the second fly, not the first. If you're only killing the first, then of course, that's the only place it will pop. But I killed them in order from 1-4 on Wide Scan chart, and it popped in place of the second fly. So, it is any of the four. All as stated above. --User:Mierin/Sig 09:24, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I've been in plenty of situations where people were killing any fly they saw, while I was the only one tracking down the PH - the fly that always spawned at the top of the list of 4.

Every time, VE has spawned 5 minutes after killing that fly.

I can also attest that killing any of those flies other than the PH makes VE take longer to spawn. Times when I was there alone, killing only the PH, it only took 1hr to 1hr and 1/2 to make VE spawn. However, when all the flies were being killed, it always took longer. One time when all the flies were being killed constantly it took around 5 hours for VE to spawn.

I'm 0/8, I've claimed it 8/10 times or so. --Denmo 15:23, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure that drop rate isn't 20-25%. I personally got the hairpin 1/13 (we also got all the claims but one) and I know other people who are at least 1/7 on the hairpin. I'm not 100% sure but I also think the Emperor always popped a bit later than the placeholder.

i just camped VE for 4 and a half hours, claiming fly 1 of 4 every single time with loxely, using scavenge for a 5:00 timer, repeat. some campers were killing place holders so technically its possible that if VE was killed within 15 seconds at some point i may have missed him, but i highly doubt it. then he popped about 5 mins after i gave up -.- an experienced NM camper buddy of mine said "30 mins to 4+ hours" was more accurate than "30 mins to 2+" hours. i told him i would notify wiki for possible update

my observations in my so far quest currently @ 0/9 is that the first is indeed the PH. It seems though that sometimes flies spawn maybe 15 seconds later than 5 minutes, could be a lag issue. It has also taken a lot longer to spawn when people are killing every fly in sight. I've had it spawn just one hour after when I was the only one there killing the PH, while when people kill any fly it always takes 2-3 hours. I have a theory for this, its that the VE has a random windows when he can spawn, well if he is allowed to spawn when a non PH fly is due to pop the window is postponed until it coincides with the popping of the PH. --Shaza 12:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Except you have two testimonials on this very page which state that they had VE pop on second or third mob, not first. Specifically, in my testimonial above, I track the first placeholder, killed it first specifically to test this theory every time, and VE popped on second mob, not the first. --FFXI-Mierin Talk / Contrib 16:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Its quite possible that by killing the second or third fly the person lost track of place holder. Also sometimes the flies spawn a few seconds off of the timer, about 5-10 seconds, if the first and second fly were killing within 20 seconds of each other its possible VE could pop before or after. But my opinion that killing every fly in sight does make VE take longer to spawn is solid and backed by my 1/10 record. But I suppose theres no way to comfirm anything that im saying no needs to believe but if you contest it then I might as well make my point clearer.--Shaza 18:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I can vouch for this method. 58 thf did it one try fourty minutes with real placeholder. I watched the entire thing in same room. - Yertthedestroyer 07:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
What i found is that if you let the 4 flies stay alive for 30 mins and don't kill one after the VE you can pop it with killing the first flie @ 25-27 minutes.
Also the 15 secound pause is where the VE shuld have poped but sice it did not pop bc the place holder was not ready to pop it pauses 10-15 secounds. This happens once every 30 mins on me. Unfortuntly othsers were killing files for exp party. Was hopeing this would help help me but...

OverGryph I spent 27 hours in Valkurm Dunes studying these alleged placeholders. It is a fact that outside of VE's window (assume he has just been defeated) the respawn on the first fly is 5 minutes exact. During VE's window, that respawn becomes more than 5 minutes. My theory is that the server will roll a die to decide the chance of VE's spawn during any particular respawn instance in-game. I also wish to point out that your first of four is inaccurate. While it is true that the server relates VE's placeholder to the first slot available out of those four spawns, it is also PROVEN that if a fly respawns it can take up a different slot on the list. I have tested this with every one of the four damselflies, and there have been instances where they have swapped to a different position on the list after they have been respawned. This proves that all four damselflies are placeholders for VE, but VE can only pop when the fly at the top of the list has respawned.

I am also testing whether or not Charm can interrupt the lottery pop on VE. From what I've noticed, every time the first damselfly was charmed within VE's window (I know it's his window because the damselfly spawns later than usual) I will not see the NM for several hours after performing Charm on the placeholder. --Gryph 04:07, 12 July 2008 (CST)

    • Have you tried having 4 rngs or /rngs, keep track of all of them and while the 4th rng just kills the 1st fly to determine whether or not the flies change on the listing. Well I have to test if they change or swap order on the list and frankly the flies did not change order, the so called "PH" which was the only one killed always remained first of the four. While the other flies remained in the same order. I've also tested this by killing flies in pairs (Ex. 2nd fly and 4th fly only, the last 2 flies of the 4) with a 2 1/2 minute seperation between repops, they've always listed the same. There was no changing or swapping of flies, I've have tested this with the help of my LS for more than 5 hours. Possibly that is not enough time to verify it as 100% fact, but that's enough for me to believe that they are always listed the same. You can believe otherwise. Also, with TH4 I'm 2/9 before Empress update and 1/6 after, I got it on the first kill but never got it again when helping people get their Empress :/ -- Rhouin

For anyone looking to camp this soon, you will want a Ranger/Thief with at a minimum level of 30. Have the Ranger, or yourself if you are the Ranger, use Wide Scan to determine which Damselfly is the PlaceHolder. After finding the PlaceHolder go find it and use Barrage/Sharpshot to kill it, hopefully, in one shot. After killing the Damselfly go back to the center of the Valkurm Emperor spawn area and wait for the Recast Time on both Barrage and Sharpshot to go down to 0:0:10 then start using Wide Scan again.
Repeat the process over and over until you kill the Valkurm Emperor and, hopefully, get your Empress Hairpin. One side note, Treasure Hunter does indeed work for obtaining the Empress Hairpin as it does not work on a Common/Rare Drop system. Good luck to all of you, sincerely, from --Atrios, Notorious Monster junkie of Fenrir.

I just camped the VE on 37THF/14RNG. It was a bit difficult to kill; regardless, I was following the 'top fly method' as a placeholder for about an hour and a half and I was accounting for the other flies in the area (other people were killing them and I noticed them disappearing so I accounted for their death and re-spawn time as well); it seems that the VE spawned from the first fly on the list--I was following that one and continued to get the claim until VE popped; 1/1 on drop. --Dontae

I only killed the top placeholder, and he popped for me after about 2 hours of camping. --Khelthros

I was leveling in Valkurm on my BST and decided to move to that beach and watch widescan for a while to see if I could get him, and after about 20 minutes of killing the first placeholder, I started killing only the 2nd listed fly, and after 20 more minutes he popped. Also he was on the other side of the beach as his "spawn area" shows. I marked it here [1] Klostro 08:46, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I've seen it spawn around the area you marked dozens of times, pretty much most of the times it spawned for me. It is accurately mentioned in the Article: spanning (D-8) to (F-8), It's just that the areas marked in the maps from Vana'diel Atlas are often more or less inaccurate as with this fly, it is only such a small area that is marked even though it actually can spawn on a wider area. ^^ Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 09:25, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Drop Rate

1/1, Tarutaru RNG44/THF22. Scorpion arrow barrage took it to 20% health. Just melee'd it down. Took 3 kills of the placeholder to pop. May 3, 2011

Four of my friends and I, all camping seperately are all 1/1 on VE in the past 6 months. Samurai35, No TH; RDM70, No TH; RDM75, No TH; Nin20, had TH3 friend with him. THF40, had same TH3 friend. Drop rate seems to have been patched recently. If only Leaping Lizzy was anything like this. Grimrising 19:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

2/3, no drop on first try, dropped on 2nd, dropped again on a third attempt which was on a seperate day. Had TH1 on first two tries and TH2 on the third. 00:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC) (Phoenix)

Got it first try, popped within 20 minutes of camping. 1/1 12:44, July 27, 2008, Eviero (Pandemonium)

Edited drop rate to add my 0/3 Fiorenzo 15:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

GOT IT 1/10 --Shaza 12:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Somewhat interesting fact. Before the drop temlpate (currently showing 9.4%), the page stated "Empress Hairpin appears to be 20-25% drop rate." --GAHOO t/ c 16:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm just glad that someone took my advice to start adding drop rates freely like this... but most admin wouldn't let me start a drop template like that... so I was forced to add it to talk pages where no one touches it. Lancer of Odin 23:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

1/1 here, meaning I killed the emperor twice and got the drop once. This was on PLD65/RNG10 with a 22WAR/MNK idling at the gates to Selbina. Either I got lucky, or this drop rate can't be too horrendous. Wriko 08:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

1/4 as 75PLD/37NIN, no th. Favre on Ifrit

1/1 as WHM/NIN with no TH. 1/1 as THF/NIN with TH3. --Nauxie 11:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

1/2 (since the change to empress hairpin) as BLM/RNG, no TH. (Marnault 08:52, 28 March 2009 (UTC))

1/1 with TH, 2/3 with TH2, and 1/1 with TH3. --Fourtwenty

1/1 as 53WHM/BST with 32MNK/THF Krizz 19:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

1/1 as 69WHM/6RNG --Khelthros

0/61 and counting. I really, REALLY hate VE. Sethimothy 21:48, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

0/14 as i speak and counting. I'm getting sick of VE. --Exconvictriddick 08:56, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

1/1 with TH, going in on a mule as 35 Thf/Dnc. Guess can call myself lucky there. ^^ Cemalidor 06:12, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

1/8 with TH, and one of those failed attempts included TH4 from an LS mate. Obsy 18:13, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

1/1 with RDM/BLM. Not sure what level i was at the time, but he was a challenge to beat. BexMithra 10:00, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

1/4 61THF/8RNG with TH2 XlideAsura 9:55, January 27, 2010

1/9 many different TH's before my 9th, but it dropped from 75DRK/10BST lol, i feel for people who got into double digits without drop.. -- User:Tsukuku.dia

There is no way this can be a 18% drop i've killed him 22 times with no drop. Either that is just horrible luck or the drop rate is much lower. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darthviper (talkcontribs).

It's possible that you could kill VE 100 times, not get the drop, and for VE to still have a drop rate of 18% across the thousands of times people have killed him. It's incredibly unlikely, but still possible. --Anthoron T/ C 09:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Gotta love /random, eh? Just a little example: To get the Assault Jerkin, I had to kill Ose over 30 or 40 times. While for example Virtuoso Belt I got with just 1 kill (2 more in about 4 kills I think). The drop rates are merely to show a general picture of how often people get something. Do keep in mind that they do not always update the rates when they did NOT get something and even if they did, it's not anything definite. ;^^ --Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 20:06, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

I also suggest that everyone take their experiences and treat them as observation, and not as fact. Your horrible drop rate experience should not cause you to claim everyone else is wrong. Probability is a tricky thing like that. --Sfxsigma 04:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Attempted for about 25 minutes using 45THF/22DNC combo, killed all flies in the area since I didn't have widescan and it popped, no one else was camping it. Very easy battle and got it 1/1. TH2 Job Trait. Good luck to anyone else. :) -Rakien 21:29, 5th, December, 2010 (UTC)


Solo'd by Warrior 30 with Monk sub job using Mighty Strikes. - Mosiro, Siren Server.

Solo'd by Samurai 32 with Warrior sub job using Meikyo Shisui with ease. - Mosiro, Siren Server.

Solo'd by Dark Knight 28 with White Mage sub job using Blood Weapon with Slight Difficulty. - Setsumi, Diabolos Server.

Solo'd by a Thief 39 with Ninja sub job didn't bother using shadows or 2hr used a few Bloody bolts and Acid bolt.

Solo'd by a THF30/15RNG using about 20-30 Bloody Bolts >.>b

Solo'd by a Taru RNG29/NIN14. I killed it in 6 hits w/daggers and 8 shots using bloody bolts. I was dual weilding archer's knives, nothing spectacular gear wise. Bloody bolts were hitting for 25-30 and draining ~100hp off regular mobs in the dunes, not sure what it drained off Emp because it only hit me for 25-30 when he actually hit me. -Cjudge 00:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Solo'd by RNG 32/NIN16. Dual Archer's Knives, Great Bow+1, and Silver Arrows. No status bolts or food necessary. Slight difficulty.

Solo'd by THF27/RNG3. Used a Parrying Knife, Mahogany Shield, ~20 Bloody bolts, 2 hour, 1 Hi-Potion +3, Antidotes, and dealt with 2 Add-on damselfly's. -Judaine, Alexander Server

Treasure Hunter 2 can help drop rate. THF46 and MNK75 duo'd with ease.

Went in as 35 Thf/Dnc. Easy fight, no food used, only two antidotes. Even without capped Dagger and Evasion i dropped only at the end into the yellow as i got to excited to have a proper look on the HP bar. Just keep Draim Samba up and use Curinf Waltz from time to time, antidotes are rather cheap today thanks to the treasure caskets. Cemalidor 06:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Solo'd by BST25 with ease. used pugils crabs and damseflies around. Solo'd it too as THF30/RNG1 with many bloody bolts and Perfect Dodge. Died immediatly after fight because of poison, got drop. --NDpowa 16:42, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Duo of 25 DNC/THF and 25 NIN/WAR was able to kill using both NPCs with some difficulties. Rivian 07:18, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Trio lvl27 mnk/war, blu/red, whm/blm. hundred fists used.

Duo by 27 DNC/THF and 27 DNC/MNK. Took about 4 minutes to defeat. Used one Trance. Got drop. 2/2 now. Regulatorsylph 18:44, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely destroyed him as a level 29 Galka MNK/WAR using 2HR, fight was over within 30 seconds. Took only 150 HP or so. No drop however. Granted me 200 exp --Bas Oos 17:58, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Pop time

A note should be made to the Article that the spawn window is 1 to 8 hours on lottery. After 2 kills last night the first one popped at 1hr 5min from ToD. Second pop from placeholder was not for over 6 hours from that ToD. --Kariudo 13:52, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

i think i am the first to see this happen, i killed the placeholder exactly 51 minutes after VE died (because i thought the repop time was 10 minutes for some reason), and the repop was VE again, so the window is slightly less than 1 hour, but you must be EXTREMELY lucky to get it (also note that since i was not expecting the pop, a random THF passing by claimed it -.-) --

The article says "Average spawn time is approximately 1-4 hours". Does this mean that his spawn window opens after one hour, or is he a true lottery and the average pop time is 1-4 hours? Also, the "After the 4 hour mark the pop time will be 8 hours" doesn't make any sense... if he doesn't pop within 4 hours, we won't pop at all for another 4 and then will pop? Huh? --Anthoron T/ C 09:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Anthoron. There's simply no way you can make the assertation "After the 4 hour mark the pop time will be 8 hours" unless you coded that aspect of the game yourself. I suggest a change to "pop time reported taking as long as 8 hours". --Azureshock

Back before this was an ex drop I think I was somewhere around 1/500 on him. Even after the ex patch I went another 50 or so without getting the drop again. The only compensation was that I sold the non ex drop for a decent price. I've had just as horrid luck on other nm's as well. Moldy earring was about 1/70, LL was 1/50ish. It's just the way the dice are rolled. Also, I believe the pop time would be 1-4 hours, and after the 4th hour it would be 1-8 hours, from the time he last spawned. So, after 4 hours it could take another 4 max. It usually takes about 6 hours ( max ) to get this guy. --Belldandie 19:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

A friend and I camped VE and it popped on the 5 hour mark. We both had widescan and are sure we didn't lose claim to any one else. ---Fourtwenty

The statement of "After the 4 hour mark the pop time will be 8 hours" is baseless. If anything, evidence stands against it from all the other lottery NMs there are, since I don't believe any have a proven delay mechanism like that. I'm removing this line for the total lack of evidence to support it.


Uh, the article says Widescan can easily check all pops, and doesnt specify any type of Widescan, i know as a 75RNG i can scan a fairly larger chunk of valkurm then VE's spawn, and i know my lvl 11BST cant scan half the spawn area. so i added a verification tag so someone can be a little more specific~ --Kirith 04:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

A level 1 Ranger can use this method. Beastmaster will only work if it's at least level 20. --Khelthros

Just a thought....

Has anyone thought about the whole "Emperor" idea?

Wiki: An emperor (from the Latin "imperator") is a (male) monarch, usually the sovereign ruler of an empire or another type of imperial realm.

Now.. With that in mind, And with posts about things, and some ideas, I came up with a theory:

What if killing the 2nd-4th flies in the propper group DOES in fact raise timer? Now, Let me explain... Emperor, he has servets, Right? With that said, What if the top one is his "Prime minister" or second in command, And you keep killing it. He gets angry and comes out to show you who's boss!(And usualy there-for slaughtered..) The others, Being his lackies, Make him get afraid, If you kill them all, Hence delaying his showing.

Just a thought, I know it'd be hard to program, But, With the random spawn timers when people kill them all, I think this maybe a thing to look at. This IS Square enix we're talking about..

(Personaly experienced it a few times, Killing top one only made him pop in 1 hour, Four times. Someone else showed up, and kill the other three, And it took 4 hours each 7 times I went for it..) --Renala

I think you're reading into the name waaaaay too much.--Anthoron T/ C 02:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

There may be some credence to this theory (not the ridiculous name pun, but the respawn thing). I have noticed that when you only kill the PHs, VE pops like clockwork, usually within 70 mins of his ToD. Now, assuming this area was a party spot for level 15ish parties, constantly killing the flies, popping VE every hour would be a headache without high-level players (35+) around to clean up the NM, right? Perhaps SE purposely designed VE to have an anti-respawn mechanism based on the frequency with which the other flies are killed, to prevent the NM of getting in the way of exping? Just a theory. --Eremes 19:28, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Small note on respawn times

Since a few people have posted theories on the repop being off by 15 seconds, it could be that the repop timer doesn't start until the corpse of the placeholder dissapears, which takes exactly 15 seconds to happen. So if you start your timer when you exactly when you kill it, you'd be off by 15 seconds on repop?

I've actually always assumed as such myself. Since a defeated mob still shows on wide scan until its corpse vanishes I was under this same impression. In my experience, the count down between pops has always occurred between the vanishing of a mop and its reappearance.--Thefinalrune 22:23, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


With the new Synergy System, it seems for doing an NM "Hunt" as it's called, from a special book in each of the cities, you can get Evoliths. When you turn the hunt for VE in, it seems a Greatsword Weaponskill accuracy evolith is given to you every time. It's associated with lightning, and I've gotten an Acc +1 and an Acc +2. The Greatsword Weaponskill Evolith was gotten 3/3 times for me, and the person I was partying with said the same.

Long story short... Evolith gained for VE: Greatsword Weaponskill Accuracy; Lightning based

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