Talk:Treasure Hunter

Unanswered Questions

Does anyone know the chat filter for Treasure Hunter? I turned it off some how and I don't see Treasure hunter in my window anymore. Is it cause I have the filters to on screen that I don't see it? or is it because of one of the config filters is off? --Kittenspaw 22:45, September 24, 2011 (EST)

I don't know if you have found your answer, but I was having the same problem. In order to receive the "Additional effect: Treasure Hunter effectiveness against <target> increases to <#>." you must have your chat filters set to display damage taken by the target, AND have you Config. > Misc. > On-screen damage display set to either "Log" or "Both." I had mine set to "Screen" and was not receiving the messages until I set it to "Both." --AsrafelX3

Why is "Treasure Hunter II" listed as a sepparate trait in "Job Traits"?

If TH2 is actually a different trait, TH+1 items do not affect TH2

What percentage does TH1 add to any given drop rate?

What percentage does TH2 add to any given drop rate(assuming it simply stacks with TH1 and isnt a slightly different idea)?

What percentage does TH+1 add to any given drop rate?

Why does the main page have "Multiple deaths increase this effect"? Is that just a joke? Removing this from the main page, as it's complete bullshitKatoke 00:10, March 26, 2010 (UTC)Katoke

In the third bullet point on the main page of TH it mentions that SE said something about TH still being "on" even after the thief dies (somewhat implied as "while" the thief is dead) in a commentary. I'd like to see the source if anyone knows where this particular commentary is. It could be I just didn't see it in this mess of a discussion page, but I'd really like to see this reference. --Willhem 19:09, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

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Summary

I think it is widely agreed that multiple THF make no difference to drop rates(wether that be duo farming right up to 36 THFs all taking part in a dyna run)

The Treasure Hunter trait adds a % to an items drop rate and does not add a /random to the drop calculations(SE have stated that a maximum of 10 items can drop from one enemy(crystals dropping into remaining slots up to the number of party members with a Signet type effect on) but if a mob can only drop one BHC(for example), TH does not change this, only make it more likely to drop)

SE have stated that TH does not affect the contents of a BCNM chest

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"Chances of Treasure Hunter abilities going off on a mob kill will be greately lessened if it is killed with a Weapon Skill or if a Job Ability, such as a Warrior's Berserk or Dark Knight's Souleater, are still active. <Added by Hieikitty of Ifrit Server>"

Huh?

Do you have proof of this?

-- FnDragon

I second Hieikittys theory, I've noticed weapon skills or job abilities lessen my chances of a drop rate by a noticeable amount if you use it during battle when soloing a EP or TW. i havent noticed any effect in party. <Gudbadguy20>

It should have no effect. Treasure Hunter is always active so as long as the person with Treasure Hunter is on the enmity list. If enmity is lost (yes it's possible to have enmity and not have focused hate), then Treasure Hunter might not take effect. --User:Charitwo/Sig 19:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

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In a recent interview, I can't remember which or I would link it, SE stated that the ONLY thing that affected Treasure Hunter was having a THF in the party. They specifically said that the THF did not need to land the final blow. They then followed that up by saying that rumors similar to that are false. --Syeria 21:00, 11 April 2006 (PDT)

Developer Interview References

I scoured the internets tonight for the developer interview in which they said that TH is only dependent on the Thief being in the party, and not having to contribute to the final blow and such. I got into an argument with someone tonight camping stupid ValkEmp regarding TH, and I wanted to make sure that what I heard was correct.

An old school interview...

• FFXI.crgaming Interview from Nov 2003

• By having a thief in the party, how much increase is there in the Gil/Item drop after defeating a monster?

We are unable to give too many details with regards to the value of points. However, if the thief is skilled with the Treasure Hunter job ability, it may not be a bad idea to adventure with a thief. Also, with regard to gil, when a thief joins a party, there are no changes to the amount of gil obtained.

Does this mean that Gilfinder only works in solo, or something? Tahngarthor 20:37, 17 January 2007 (EST)

• Does having a thief increase the possibility of a drop even in key/quest items (aprons, skull, wadi grass, etc.)?

Of course! Only the thief has the ability to acquire the Treasure Hunter job ability. There is an increased chance in obtaining dropped items.

More recently...

• FFXI.Stratics Interview from May 2005

• I have to ask on behalf of all thieves out there, are there any conditions to activating the Treasure Hunter ability or is just being in the party enough? There are a whole bunch of theories such as thief having the last hit.

If there is a thief in the party then you will have the treasure hunter ability, if you want to have some conspiracy theories well we can't tell you. If you want to think that it's the last hit then you can go ahead and think that.

And the kicker...

• Allakhazam Boards Post from Mar 2006 (this is someone's liveblog deal thing... I couldn't find a more "official" transcript of the interview. All other references I found regarding treasure hunter pointed back to this post.)
• I also found this on a more reputable site, but it does not have the full transcript here: 1up Festival Summary

• How does Treasure Hunter work?

Can't say too much, but it has nothing to do with damage or the last blow. You simply must have it in the party.

I suppose this was more for my own personal reference and to reconfirm my belief in ye olde Treasure Hunter. I have a feeling that I read the last information on an actual transcript, perhaps even on the Fan Festival website... but I don't know, it seems to have been changed from what I remembered. --Waluigi 07:33, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

• Fan Festival 2007:

How does Treasure Hunter effect drops in battlefields, dynamis, chest contents.

No effect on chests.

Same effect in dynamis etc. as elsewhere.

For TH to be active THF must perform an action on the target. Does not have to be killing strike.

Most Recent Revision

Those theories are WAY too far-fetched to be included in a description of what the ability may do. I always thought of information pages as less theory, but more of what is known. Personally don't think those new theories belong there. --Zhais

Agreed - Moved to below. --Nynaeve 02:18, 11 December 2006 (EST)

I admire DT7's enthusiasm in editing but even if those "Theories" are plausible, there is no way to prove them, and more likely this is just his own explanation of why TH doesn't make drops dramatically better all the time. You're welcome to pose these things, but if you have some new idea it's best to discuss it on the talk page or in the forums first. He has also changed proven information to things that are incorrect without reviewing the talk page (which contained an explanation). The talk pages are a valuable tool, please make use of them :) Tahngarthor 20:33, 17 January 2007 (EST).

Other Theories

• Over a long period of time, it's noticable that at sometimes the "Treasure Hunter" trait "shuts off" at certain times. For some thieves, their "Treasure Hunter" seems to affect drops based on moon phase, where new moon seems to effect rarer drops to appear more often and full moon seems to deactivate it (at least through tests using Hume Male Thieves).

• Low drops during a particular moon phase is not an indication that TH is "shut off" or not working. It is commonly believed (even by me) that the moon phase affects drops in one way or another. But the other common belief is that Treasure Hunter provides a percentage increase. Asuming this is true, if an item has a very low chance to drop, you will not so easily feel the effect of treasure hunter, and here's an example: Let's just say (for argument) that the Kraken Club has a 1% chance to drop from it's BCNM on a new moon. Let's also say (for argument), that TH4 increases drop rates 25%. The chance to drop a karaken club would still only be 1.25% (.01 + (.01*.25)=.0125)), which you would barely even notice over countless dozens of runs of the BC, at which point you would be believing that TH is having no effect when in reality the scale is just too small for you to measure accurately. By the same token, an item that drops 1/5 of the time on a new moon (20%) would now drop 1/4 or 25% of the time, which is the same percentage increase but much easier to measure. I hope this helps. Tahngarthor 20:50, 17 January 2007 (EST)

• I would have to agree and disagree with Tahn, I've never seen a difference on drop rates with any moon phase, the same goes for my THF friends. I've camped during new/full moons for 300+ hours on multiple NMs over the years and haven't seen any noticable difference. That being said, his percentage explaination seems dead on, barring the BCNM and Moon part. When I farm say, beast blood, which, while watching my fiance who has no TH ability, seems to have a 70% or so drop rate for a single, and 25% for 2 bloods to drop. My rate with TH3, however, seems to be 90% or so for at least a single, with a 60ish percent chance for two bloods to drop. Also, it seems when I farm rarer items, it seems to have little to no effect at all. Diorite, for example, seems to have an average drop time whether a THF or no THF is in my sky LS. (We have TH4 Thieves along with TH3.) I would say through everything my THF friends and I have experienced, evidence would show it was a percentage increase as he decribed. (Thank you for taking the time to put that in simple enough terms to explain, I'll just reference your post when someone asks me what I mean next time. <_< lol) AlaikAlaik
• There's an unproven theory that treasure hunter's effectiveness is based on a dice roll system at the beginning of each game day, where at the start of each game day an invisible dice is rolled to determine the effectiveness of Treasure Hunter. --DT7 (19:49, 10 December 2006)
• If TH works like is mentioned on the main page, where a /random is done to determine what you get, maybe TH expands the range of your roll. Lets say for Leaping Lizzy, the range for the boots is 125-135, giving you 10/1000 chances, or 1%. So lets say the effect of TH is to add a +/- to your roll, maybe 100. So instead of needing to roll a 130 to get your boots, you could roll anywhere from 25-235, giving you a 210/1000 chance, thus adding 20% chance of you getting drops. This is just pure speculation based off the limited information we have, but it seems plausible. Maybe some drops even have overlapping ranges, which would explain how you get multiple drops with one kill. JTimmons 23:27, 13 September 2007 (EST)

Treasure Hunter (RE: Joped's Edit)

In my experience, and something I read somewhere, but I forget where. Per this section:
Despite rumors to the contrary, so long as a thief is in the party, and in the same zone, Treasure Hunter is always active for all mob kills, regardless of who lands the killing blow. This has been revealed in many interviews with SE representatives. No action, or lack of action, on the part of the thief will affect this trait, short of equipping gear that Enhances "Treasure Hunter" effect.

In order for it to take effect, the Thief must be on the hate list of the respective mob and within the proper distance to obtain Experience Points, even if the mob does not give EXP. (e.g. Dynamis, but you still get the message if you're too far away) --Charitwo 15:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

-I can indeed confirm the EXP range theory of this but im sure i can dispel your "Hate List" theory, from spending many days in the highlands kill Rams for Horns. I was killing one pop & my wife was killing the other. Every kill that i got yielded 1~2 horn & 3~4 skins,every time, every kill my wife got was the same. The only time the drop rates changed was when i received the "You are too far away from battle to gain experience points" Message. The drop rate was far poorer with no horns and only 1 or 2 skins. This was over a 4 day period, different moon phases, different days with a Thief's Knife. I have also noticed this holds true in Dynamis when im the only THF on the run, if i receive the "You are too far from battle to gain experience points" message on pulls, mobs tend to drop little to none 1cc.

If someone feels that they should test this further, please do, as further confirmation would help to solve some of the TH enigma.

I am adding this to the page, please remove if you feel it is inappropriate. Sorry for the repeated minor edits to the chat page, as its late and i was trying to find the best way to word this. --Emperordragon 01:40, 11 April 2007 (EST)

Shamaya's Edit I put up a little "verification sign" on the bit that said that testing had shown that the thief needed to be in exp range. I don't see any source here showing a test, only anecdotal claims, which is why I added that. Charitwo, you mentioned that SE made a commentary that the thief needed to be in EXP range. I remember that vaguely. If someone finds a source for that, link it here, and it can be moved from the testing/theory section to the facts section. --ShamayaAsura 19:28, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

It's Fact that if the Thief receives the "You are too far from battle to gain experience points" message, Treasure Hunter will not take effect. I'm sure it was said during the fanfest in 2007. Not only that but any respectable THF should already know this. And no offense and I don;t want to start a flame war here but saying "I don't see any source here showing a test, only anecdotal claims" is not right. If a THF uses AC to see if he get's more TP return isn't that a "test" if a THF runs in and out of "xp range" over a period of 4 days with another farmer and counts the drops, isn't that a "test". If you want the truth we will have to neeja the FF code on the SE severs and go through it all line by line and even then there have been so many updates that I bet SE doesn't even know where to find it. Which is probbaly why there hasnt been any new TH+1 gear since Zilart (original programmers*) I want to remove the verification tag, cause it's been verified on Alla forums, KI forums, IGN forums, Windower.net Forums, and even our own wiki forums. Plus it's unfair to even have it tagged for verification cause we will never probably know.

• KI forums for TH testing
• Taken off Fanfest 2007 Fanfest 2007 Developer's Panel

Question: How does Treasure Hunter affect drops in Battlefields, Dynamis/Limbus, and even when opening chests?

Answer: Treasure Hunter has no effect on chest contents. As for Dynamis and Limbus, Treasure Hunter is active just as anywhere else in Vana'diel. For it to be active, the thief must have performed some type of action against the target, and it need not be the final blow.

--Azaron 09:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Please revise.

i would like to bring up a few points open for anyone looking to explore this trait. theres alot of debate on what TH does, i look for paterns in the games coding, and question things that dont fit the general patern. keep in mind this is only my humble opinion on how the trait works, but i do however have reason to believe it plausable. for example, why is there TH2 and TH1? every other job trait, such as <conserve mp> or <fast cast> get enhancments at certain levels, increasing their efficency. so why then 2 seperate traits, and not an enhancement to the original? my theory is that they are for completly different things. for example, TH1 could be for normal drops, eg. lizard skin, silk, etc. while TH2 could be for R/EX drops. which would make sense in the idea that anyone can sub thf and farm using it, and why thfs are usually present when u see R/EX drops. that being said, i think TH enhancing items only enhance TH1, and not TH2, because it would say TH2+1 and not TH+1. which also makes sense with regards to only thf being able to use such items, making their TH1 better then somone with thf sub, which in turn gives thf a higher advantage at the trait that was made for them. excuse my sloppy post, for simply wanted to drop some quick points, rather then present numbers. i am however in the testing of such things to have the numbers to prove/disprove my theory. with regards to testing somthing like this, it takes alot of time and needs to take place on a wide time scale to be accurate when taking into account moon phase, day of week, luck items etc. hence i posted this in hopes that others will also test, when similar results from mulitple ppl come up the same, its alot more concrete then invisible '/randoms' that more then likely dont exist

Whoever put this on the main TH page, please do not add a rather large WoT of speculation. It belongs in a guide or talk page.

This is VERY unrealistic. The theory would the have to accomodate things like the fast cast trait, which also gets "upgraded" at a higher level. Meaning the fast cast equipment would only effect the first fast cast trait and none of the others. It has been proven with fast cast that the traits stack. So if you want to look at, as you put it, "patterns in code" then take something like the fast cast traits. This would mean TH1 and TH2 stack. So going on the percentage idea 1% (TH) and 2% (TH2) would mean a 3% increase in drop rate. --Gravylegg 06:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I dunno if this might have some kind of possibility to it. TH is the only ability I know of in which the upgraded level has a separate listing under your job traits. It specifically lists Treasure Hunter at 15, then Treasure Hunter 2 at 45. Any other trait, like Fast Cast, gets upgrades at higher levels but it never lists a separate ability as in Fast Cast 1, Fast Cast 2, etc. Maybe there is some merit in this? --Kuldin 21:54, 21 December 2007

Rumors

In my opinion, rumors, especially far-out ones that can never be proven, have no place in a Wiki like this. Can't we just delete that excessiveness entirely(maybe perhaps what SE said in an interview)? I'm sure if it was really wanted, it could be linked to a forum thread that showed tests of such things.

Perhaps from the actual article, but the talk page can still be used for discussion.Besides, SE already said that they need to be in EXP range to take effect. --Charitwo 09:30, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Treasure Hunter +1

I very highly doubt Treasure Hunter +1 is +1%, it seems far greater than that (~10%). Drops seem alot better with a Thief's Knife. --Emperordragon 12:00, 12 April 2007 (EST)

I'm not about to add it to the article (unsubstantiated rumor/etc. and all that) but I have a pretty good reason to believe that TH+1 is equivalent to 1/10th of a full trait, as that's how all other traits (aside from, obviously, Clear Mind) behave. So TH2 is 20 "points" of Treasure Hunter, and the Thief's Knife tacks on an additional point. Net result: 5% increase in effect. That said, it'd require actually looking at the source code to the game to definitively pin it down (or outright asking "Does 'TH+1' on a piece of gear have the same relative effect to TH as 'Store TP+1' does to Store TP, 'DA+1' does to DA, etc.?" at the next Fanfest, which would probably be a good idea). I admit it doesn't tell us how much effect TH has in general (my guess: it's Zanshin for the internal dice roll to determine drops, ha ha), but it'd explain why some people see ~10% increases and others see ~1% increases in drop rates. --Mdenham 22:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

New Section/page

Would anyone be against me(or someone else) making a new page for the TH Rumors?

If that is too much, how about a section after "Gear that increases this effect" that would hold all the speculation?

That wouldn't be necessary, that's exactly what this talk page is for. --Wayka 02:32, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Agreed, the main page is for facts, the talk page is for discussion regarding questions, comments, and opinions regarding the article. You can however, start a new section in the talk page for what you describe. --Chrisjander 02:51, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Confirm/Deny?

This is painfully obvious to me, but alas I have no proof of it. However I think it should be noted on the main page at the very least as it really is not a rumor, unless someone has a differing answer. That is, that TH does absolutely nothing on lower lvl mobs, mobs that are of a much lower lvl than the THF. A 75 THF killing lvl 1 worms for zinc ore will get straight owned by any lvl 1 job, THF or not.

There are too many Thfs and /Thfs running around pillaging newbie zones and exp camps thinking their TH is actually doing something, when it isn't doing a damn thing. NMs might be another story I don't know, but standard mobs?

If anyone has any evidence to the contrary though I would be interested in seeing it. --Tomai 22:18, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

I don't see how it's obvious if you have no proof? Just because it makes sense to you doesn't mean it's reality! I have farmed Giddeus for dozens of hours for Yagudo Bead Necklaces (well over a thousand) as a level 74 for Norg fame for many characters. I've done this both solo with and without TH and I was (obviously) vastly higher than the local mobs (which are newb lv7ish). The drop rate without TH is low, like 25% neighborhood (I don't know exactly, I don't solo there a lot without TH). I have also tried it with 1, 2, and 3 friends all either main THF or /THF, and it becomes very obvious very quickly that it helps against lower level mobs (very close to 100% drop rate with 3-4 /THF in party all close together, all significantly higher than the mob). This also works against crawlers for silk thread in West and East Saru too! You can also tell that it works with RAR/EX drops as you will get Smooth Stones, Meteorites and other weird objects nearly every kill, whereas before they were somewhat rare. Freazer 17:51, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

I agree with what Freazer has stated. I have farmed giddeus too as 60THF/NIN and as 67PLD/WAR, the drop rate is far better as THF/NIN. Average Yagudo Necklace farming run in giddeus with PLD/WAR it would take me 1-1/2 hours to fill my inventory from 4/60. With THF/NIN I would be full within 30-45 minutes, this is solo. --Evagelo 03:58, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

SE has come out and said that level does not effect drop rates. Square-Enix Q&A Response: June 2004

--Gravylegg 06:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Treasure Hunter Testing

I started collecting data on drop rates for bees using TH0 (NIN/WAR), TH1 (NIN/THF), TH2, TH3 and TH4. The data and analysis is posted here: http://khoisan.livejournal.com/15302.html

Here are two graphs. The first one shows the chance that a mob will drop anything at all (Drop Mob/Total Kills), and the total number of drops (Total Drop/Total Kills).

The second shows the effect of TH on the drop pattern (No drops, 1 drop, 2 drops etc...)

The two graphs show that total drops are increased by TH1 and TH2 by both increasing the chance a mob will drop something, and increasing the chance it will drop more than one item. After TH2 the drop percentage doesn't increase past 66% for the target mob (Bees near Rose Garden). TH3 and TH4 increase total drops by increase the double drop percentage.

One of two things may be happening. Either the mob has a natural drop cap of 66% (which is reached by TH2), or the TH+1 items don't affect the drop %, just the chance of multiple drops. More testing would be required to determine this. Moon phase was not taken into account to reduce the number of variables.

Shulula 14:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well done; A good, defined method, well presented, and with some interesting results. The sample size of 100 monsters is a little small, but it seems that a larger sampling isn't needed to see clear results in this case. I'd like to see some similar tests with unique drops (i.e. Damselfly Worm, Star Spinel, etc.), with multiple drops of the same item, or with monsters that have an unusually high drop rate (i.e. Rams), to see if the results differ in any way. ~ Karuberu 15:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

If Treasure Hunter has no effect on the drops pattern at all (which is very realistic), the second graph would still look the same. Let's say that every mob has a list of items it drops and a respective drop rate. If the drop rate for each item is increased, then the probability to obtain more items would naturally increase with it. Let's say that without TH you would get item A but not B. Since TH increases both drop percentages, you would even more likely get item A, and also increase the chance of getting item B. So the number of drops would increase without TH actually affecting it. Zaphor 13:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The apparent drop in items using TH3 could just be a flaw in the results due to a small sample size Maverick 18:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Interview Q&A

A quick scan of this page shows that the mechanics of Treasure Hunter are far from universally agreed upon, so I added a citation for you on the latest additions. Not to mention, they were direct copy/pastes from my translation. Elmer the Pointy 20:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

My Edit, 12/7/07

Just went in and changed around a few things, and thought I should make note of it here. I put TH testing and theory in its own section. Also made a note that the list of testing and theory shown was not comprehensive. Also added additional recent SE commentaries to the first section. I think there is more that can yet be added to an article, and I hope that these changes were a step in the right direction.

Sources that should be noted For the first section, both of these sources were contributing:

• Fall'07 Osaka Fan Festival, translated by Elmer the Pointy (Pages 1 and 5)
• Fan Festival 2007 Live Blog

And for the testing section:

• test by Divisortheory
• (identical) test by Divisortheory

--ShamayaAsura 18:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Luck Item edit, 2/4/08

Added in SE's Q&A commentary regarding luck items and luck in general. Also from the following source, Fan Festival 2007 Live Blog --Sham 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Further edits, 2/4/08

I've been doing a bit of specific TH testing, mostly to confirm some inferences made from the recent fan festival commentaries. I'll most likely be editing that into the TH testing/theory section soon.

Source - [1]

Data -

Total sample was nearly 900 kills. The test simply confirm concerns regarding TH stacking within the alliance as opposed to the party, and also the party with TH getting the killshot, as opposed to the actual thief him/herself getting the killshot. --Sham 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

S-E has said, and it is currently suggested by the article, that the THF getting the killshot is irrelevant; so it's not really something that needs to be focused on for testing. Parties on the other hand are a bit less clear, but I was fairly sure that it was said in some official channel that TH is applied from the party that had claim on the mob when it died. Tahngarthor^{talk-contribs} 21:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting that you say that, Tahn, because most people that I've talked to who commented on my research stated the opposite, that they thought that they heard SE say, officially, that "the highest treasure hunter level in the alliance is the one that takes effect, and that it does not stack" even though the English translations stated 'party' and not 'alliance' or 'alliances.' So yes, that's one of the motivations for the testing you see above. To test whether or not the party that gets the killshot needs to have TH in it for TH to activate. Most have said that my sample size of almost a thousand wasn't enough, but I haven't mastered the statistical formulas yet to show my margin of error mathematically. In any event, it's at least a somewhat decent sample and it supports the inferences that many have made, that TH doesn't stack even with an alliance, nor in multiple alliances (in the case of dynamis, etc).--Sham 12:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Theory from article page

"Many believe that Treasure Hunter is no more than simply adding an extra /random to treasure drops. That is, they believe that treasure drops are managed through a /random system in which items are distributed if the number rolled goes above a set number. I.e. lizards would, hypothetically, drop lizard tails from a roll of 220-400, lizard eggs at 401-560, etc. Hence, Treasure Hunter simply gives a THF an extra roll and therefore an extra chance at the items but not technically an increased rate. The increased rate is derived from increased rolls. And as each party member has their own /random roll at mob death, a THF's Treasure Hunter is equivalent to having so many members, unknown how many, in the party. In other words, a THF's drop rate would be comparable to the drops of a three member party (just an example). Treasure Hunter II, however, may have a stipulation that its random cannot go below a set number. As well, the effects of Treasure Hunter, some have proposed, may not be fully taken advantage of unless the party is full or may have increased effects or a higher /random set when in full PT/Alliance."

• I have two issues with this. First, is the "many believe" comment for probably obvious reasons. Second, this paragaph suggests that treasure hunter creates the possibility for the mob to drop more items than is normally possible to drop from a particular mob. Theory further up this page does suggest that the chance to get all the potential drops increases, but no one suggests that you could get extra drops above and beyond what is already technically possible like this paragraph does. The latter half of this theory paragraph doesnt really seem to be based on anything at all and is just the writer's perosnal interpretation of what is going on when TH influences drops. I believe theory should be kept off the articles themselves and discussed in the talk page whenever possible; The article is for fact and for information generally accepted as fact based on available information. The first parts of this page are fine as they are taken from information Square-Enix has given.User:Tahngarthor^{talk-contribs} 21:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm going to have to agree with the edit you did. --Sham 12:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

For reference, I added that paragraph to the page long ago based on a logical deduction as to why drop rate increases didn't seem necessarily consistent, that the effect of a set % increase didn't make sense in regards to very low rate drops, and because a thief can often get multiple drops (like ram horns) extremely commonly whereas they come very rarely for non-THF. I agree with the removal as it was conjecture and it was added mainly to give a reasonable explanation (before we had so much testing) to help limit the nonsense explanations that we've had bandied about. That said, it would seem that recent tests showed I was quite accurate. To clarify, I never intended the suggestion to mean that you can get more than what is possible, but that you had another chance, as it were, to receive the items you didn't receive. This helps to make sense of both the multi-drops for THFs and the lack of noticeable effect on very low drop rate items. Again, I add this note only for clarification and to say thank you: Thanks for helping put to rest all of the silly nonsense non-THFs pass off as "fact" about how TH works. --Ollorin Asura 00:29, 06 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit, Testing/Theory section, 4-17-08

Edited in my own tests into the Testing/Theory section of the article, which I've been too lazy to do up until now.

Additional TH tests done by members of Order of the Blue Garter Forum

Here are charts based on testing done on TH0, TH1 and TH2 on Dhamels.

There is a new TH thread on Blue Garter (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63785) where people are compiling data on several mobs. Here are some charts based on the TH0, TH1 and TH2 data on dhamels. (You can also see results here: http://khoisan.livejournal.com/23413.html)

Data:

Drop Kill is the total number of drops over the total number of kills. It is a measure of loot output and can be greater than 100% if you get more total drops than the total mobs killed.

Drop Mob is the chance that a mob will drop anything. It does not take into account what drops or the number of drops.

Drop Groupings:

Drop Stats:

Analysis: These charts are based on 1000 kills for each level of Treasure Hunter. On a basic level you can see that TH increases the chance that something will drop from a mob (ie the chance that 0 items drops decreases). It also increases the chance that multiple items will drop (2-drop 3-Drop and 4-Drop). Getting 3 and 4 drops is still rare even for Dhamels but TH does increase it.

The distance between Drop Mob and Drop Kill on the second chart is the effect of multiple drops on your loot output. If every mob dropped 1 item, the lines would be identical.

The combination of those two effects, increases the loot output from 24.9% (TH0) to 56.1% (TH1) to 79.7% (TH2). How TH affects each drop, or combination of drops is more complex and we need more analysis.

-Shulula

Regarding "Testing and Theory"

The way it is explained I understand it as if you were to kill 1 monster, it were to be as if you were to kill it 2, 3, or 4 times with that 1 kill. Like instead of rolling 1 6-sided die to try to get a 6, you are rolling 5 dice.

• However, it didn't go into explanation of duplicate loot.

For example the possible loot for Valkurm Emperor are Insect Wing and the Empress Hairpin. Would that mean you roll 5 times for each loot?

• Additionally the explanation would affect the FFXI drop rates calculations.
  • Assuming the follow is true;
    • Treasure Hunter doesn't increase the drop rate % of an item, but instead gives you more chances to receive the item.
    • A player without Treasure Hunter gets 1 random "roll" from say 1-100.
    • Treasure Hunter ... gives more random "rolls"

In terms of FFXIclopedia drop rate calculations, that takes into account how many kills have been made, Treasure Hunter affects that calculations directly.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Template:Drop_Rate

An example:

• Lets assume with TH4 if you kill 1 Valkurm Emperor will allow you 4 rolls.
  • Assume you happen to get the Empress Hairpin. Which of the four rolls would have actually won you that pin? It could have been possible that two of the four rolls actually won (2/4) or most likely one of the four (1/4), but you don't know. Adding (1/1) for drop rate would be technically incorrect as you don't know which of the four rolls won you the pin.
  • Additionally assume you don't get the Empress Hairpin. That means all the four rolls would have failed. However, most people will still report (0/1) for drop rate. Technically again this is incorrect in terms of how TH theory is defined. It should be (0/4) as all four rolls missed.

--Lord0din69 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

---

Yes, the theory is that you roll up to n times for each item that can drop (where n is the TH level). However, the drop rates on mob pages are not designed to be exact, but more of a guide. This does distort the numbers in a few ways, but it can't be accounted for unless we know exactly how TH works.--Anthoron T/ C 05:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

--Iracarmel 00:04, February 17, 2010 (UTC) After kinda of looking around a bunch and putting some ideas together here's what I've got;

There are certain treasure pools, you can get one of these, chance to get is X, one of these chance to get is Y, and one of these, chance to get is Z. Each level of TH gives a roll to get. So no TH is one roll, TH is 2 rolls, TH2 3 rolls, TH3 4 rolls, and TH4 is 5 roll attempts.

Here's how the math works out;

THr = Treasure Hunter drop Rate. At = roll attempts (based on TH level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) Dr = real drop rate Fc = 1-Dr or fail chance.

THr = 1-(Fc^at)

Going the other direction; if you know the rate of drop at a specific TH level you can figure out the "real" drop rate.

Dr = 1-(-(Thr-1))^(1/At)

I worked this out after I noticed that drop rates seemed to come in "suspicious numbers." Like ~7% or 1/13 or I call it unlucky drop. or ~3% chance, 1/26 double unlucky.

If you have a person with TH4 camp someting that would normally have a double unlucky drop, the rate comes out to around 14%

If you have a person with TH4 camp something that is an unlucky drop the rate is 17%. These numbers... they look familiar....

My friend who has a bunch of experience camping HNM said that Hautclaire was like 1/20 drop with TH4. Which would make it really close to 1.01% or... 1/(7*13) real drop rate. Suspicious? I think so.

Tiered Drop Theory & TH Activation Theory

Each mob has a list of droppable items. Each item is assigned a commonality value. As in more common items will drop more often then others. For example each item could have a percentage assigned chance of dropping at any time.

I came up with this theory to explain what happened to my drops as I leveled thief.

Testing on Giant Bees in West Sarutabaruta

I was a windurstian most of my early months of play and leveled many jobs in the saruta. I learned to farm the crawlers and bees there for my gil. Here are drops listed from most common to least common for Giant Bees in the sarutas.

Drop commonality on non-thief jobs

Insect Wing > Beehive Chip > Honey > Giant Stinger

• Very Common - Insect Wing
• Common - Beehive Chip
• Uncommon - Honey
• Rare - Giant Stinger

Between level 20-50 I farmed the crawlers and bees in west sarutabaruta for all my gil. I spent over a month farming there with TH1. So I'm used to seeing a certain drop rate all the time. Then when I hit level 45 there was an immediate change in what dropped.

Drop commonality with TH1

Beehive Chip > Honey > Giant Stinger > Insect Wing

• Very Common - Beehive Chip
• Common - Honey
• Uncommon - Giant Stinger
• Rare - Insect Wing

Drop commonality with TH2

Honey > Giant Stinger > Beehive Chip = Insect Wing

• Very Common - Honey
• Common - Giant Stinger
• Rare - Beehive Chip
• Rare - Insect Wing

Testing on Mighty Rarab in Buburimu Peninsula

A friend of mine wanted rarab meat for cooking and we went to Buburimu Peninsula to farm some up. Neither one of us was on thf because this wiki has the drop rates stated as Hare Meat 28.2% Wild Rabbit Tail 10.6%

However we found it wasn't anything like those rates almost all drops were rabbit tails very few hare meat.

So I changed over to my lvl 75 thief. There was an immediate change almost no rabbit tails dropped very nearly every drop was hare meat.

Drop commonality on non-thief jobs

• Very Common - Rabbit Tail
• Uncommon - Hare Meat

Drop commonality with TH2

• Very Common - Hare Meat
• Uncommon - Rabbit Tail

We then took it upon ourselves to test something I've suspected for a long time. I know SE has clearly stated that thiefs must be involved for TH to take effect. I believe that the TH need only be in the same party in the same zone and that's it.

So we tested. I ran all the way across the zone and stayed in the party with my friend who is not a thief or subbing thief.

We still had the same drop rate with me on the opposite side of the zone doing nothing. Just sitting in the party.

I have not done this test with an alliance yet to see if TH effects an entire alliance, sure need to test this.

Testing on mining in Zeruhn Mines

I wanted to skillup my smithing skill and needed iron ore. Zeruhn Mines has iron as its most common drop. I was on my lvl 75 thf at the time. Instead of Iron ore I was getting mostly pebbles and copper ore.

Drop commonality with TH2

Pebble = Copper Ore > Tin Ore = Zinc Ore > Iron Ore

• Very Common - Pebble
• Very Common - Copper Ore
• Common - Tin Ore
• Common - Zinc Ore
• Uncommon - Iron Ore

I then switched over to a non-thief job and was able to get similar results as posted on this wiki with Iron ore as the most common. And so it seems that TH effects the drop rates of mining just as it does to mobs.

Conclusion

Tiered Drop Theory - invalidates the reported drop rates on this wiki as the drop rates per item is dependent on the level of TH in use. My testing has found the same effect on mining results. Reported drop rates would need to be labeled by level of TH active to be relevant.

TH Activation Theory - Thief only need be in the same party in the same zone(Yes, I am well aware SE has publicly stated otherwise; yet my testing shows this is how it really works). Maybe thief only needs be in the same alliance and zone(Needs testing)?

I neither expect nor want this discussed at face value. Please do your own tests and we'll discuss the results. --Alexeina 17:10, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

I have created the following chart, based on my observations, to dispel any confusion as to how Treasure Hunter works:

http://i46.tinypic.com/11j0prt.png

I would use a large data sample for my tests but the Tarus in my LS are less than willing to help for some reason.

--Jabercat 09:39, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Chest Keys, R/Ex Drops, and possibly Key Items

Added in that TH effects r/ex drops. Stated in an old commentary by SE. --Sham 04:30, February 22, 2010 (UTC) However, in reading that, I'd originally thought it meant "key items." In retrospect though, I think it's just talkign about chest keys, so I've edited the article accordingly.--Sham 18:17, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Forced Drops Example

Removing the Mee Deggi example from the main page. Too much that we don't understand about how drops work to use it as an example for the idea. Better to use something concrete, like 100% drops or drops that happen only if certain conditions are met. Until we are certain that things drops can't be set as default instead of "no drop" I don't like using Mee Deggi or Quu Domi as examples of how forced drops may or may not be affected by treasure hunter. --Ollorin 02:15, 18 May 2010 (MST)

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07/12/2010 ~ December Update

• The effectiveness of the THF job trait "Treasure Hunter" now occasionally increases with each melee attack landed. Further, damage dealt with either the "Sneak Attack" or "Trick Attack" ability will have a greater likelihood of enhancing this trait.
• Effect active only when main job is set to THF.

On doing a bit of farming to test this out an occasional 'enlight' effect is shown when attacking, same happens more commonly when used with 'Sneak Attack'. This seems to be the effect of the new update for TH, if anyone would like to confirm or add anything to this please do. :x

Not yet seen a significant increase since I've only tested it for about 30 minutes. --Rakien 02:04GMT, December 7th, 2010

I did a test with a thf friend between the two of us were able to increase the TH effect simultaneously, first i increased it to 5, then she increased it to 6. Dunno if this is right or she missed when she increased it in 5, just wanna know if anyone have done something like this, so far the highest tier i have seen is 8.--Hiroyukii 23:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Seems to me like TH originally functions as it did before with the additional effect adding more tiers based on the TH gear you have. (i.e. TH3 starts with add. effect reaches 4 then 5 and so on... vs. TH4/5/6 base giving add. effect to start one tier higher than the geared TH they currently have so 5/6/7 respectively and increasing as expected.) Ryoku 04:54, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Added in about the stacking of successive hits and the tiers with TH+ gear on. Fighting Onvi yesterday, I was the only THF in pt and with TH III + Thief's Knife, I got a proc for tier 5 and then a little while later it increased to tier 6. 2/3 Bullwhip belts too ^^; I've noticed it a couple of times in Abyssea xp parties as well. I'm still not quite sure if 2x or more THF in a pts procs would stack with each other or whether highest TH would overwrite but at least now we'll have a better chance of understanding how TH works :P --Laotzu 14:20, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Additional Effect

Given that additional TH processing is now an "enlight"-style Additional Effect, wouldn't added effects from Enspells, Sambas, etc overwrite this effect? Normally, you can't have more than one Additional Effect active at a time. --Eremes 20:19, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

This one "over-powers" samba, and likely any other such effect as well.
On another note, I've noticed a peculiar thing and that is I seem to have TH3 or TH1+2+1 or TH2+1 or however one wants to interpret it (considering this additional effect I think it is accurate to say TH3 while with a knife and so forth even though it does not appear in the trait list). The first effect takes it to 5 (with Thief's Knife), and my Thief is only Lv.71.
While in Campaign Battle (yeah some people still do it, crazy huh?), I was hitting a Turret and at times I noticed the effect would go to 6 if I remember right, but then I saw a 3 at some point which is below the normal minimum so there definitely seems to be some weird stuff going on with it. Though the turret could re-set everything at times so I'm not really surprised about that but it is interesting so thought I'd mention it at least. Will try that again soon.
As I'm writing this, I'm testing it again, with the appreciated help of Master Coeurls at The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah. If I remove my Thief's Knife, the first boost will always be to level 4. I tried changing area and job even but I would still start with 3 (i.e., the first boost was to 4 without Thief's Knife). Only way to make sense of this would be that Treasure Hunter + [[Treasure Hunter II = Treasure Hunter III. However this does not play along with what a Lv.90 Thief gets with Treasure Hunter III, what would need to be 6 without the knife or/and armlets but i asked a fellow Thief since mine wont be seeing Lv.90 any times soon probably due to leveling up in Campaign only pretty much, I got the response that the player gets it boosted to 6 with the first time, and 4 without knife or armlets...argh!  ;^^
Possibly a glitch or something I'm missing, tired as I am, but either way it seems strange though I'm not complaining!
Any ideas? « The Noob Unlimited » 16:35, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, it has been fixed now, which is funny because a Gamemaster had confirmed to me that it was working as intended.
Whether it was a written error only or in actual effect, I do not know, but now it seems to be working as...intended.  ;^^ « The Noob Unlimited » 01:16, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Since it's happening now again, with Treasure Hound active, I'm going to say it was that all along confuddling me, disregarding the fact that I have a strong feeling I specifically checked that it was not in effect when I got too high numbers and that it was indeed in effect when I confirmed it was working normally...
But this must be it, not going to even think about it anymore! « The Noob Unlimited » 00:26, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Moved

"** The above statement is NOT true: I just had the effect enhanced twice during one fight, taking my TH4 (90 thf with thief knife) to TH6 while fighting a Million Eyes in the Den of Rancor... And a little side note: Fire IV did drop, so /cheer... Azryel - Caitsith"

The main page says "Round," not "Fight." This means in 1 attack round, even if you attack multiple times in 1 round (say from Triple Attack) only 1 hit has a chance to process the effect. Therefore, additional hits from Double Attack, Triple Attack, Quadruple Attack and Occasionally Attacks X Times cannot process this effect. Please read before making edits. --Eremes 02:56, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Additional Effect proc'ing on weaponskills

As a 90THF duoing mobs with a 90DNC, I pay avid attention to my chatlog for notices of TH additional effect procs. While farming Januwiyah -1 on Hilltroll Paladins in Mt. Zhayolm, I would use SA and TA as often as possible to help increase my TH. My TH gear (which I didn't bother swapping after initial attack) was simply a Thief's Knife, which brings my total intial TH to 4. The first proc therefore should read as TH5 in the log.

After a SA Dancing Edge behind the mob (which showed no message in the log regarding additional effects for TH), I proc'd the additional effect for TH with the resulting total at 6. Since it apparently skipped 5, the only way this is possible is if it was hidden within one of the hits (probably the SA'd first hit) of my Dancing Edge. Therefore, I have changed the main article to specify that weaponskill hits can proc the additional effect: TH+. --Invader 21:23, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

I also had a fairly similar experience as Invader... I was soloing Blanga this one time in Abyssea - Uleguerand and had him currently at LV6 TH, then I did an AC + Evisceration and everything seemed normal, around 2 minutes later TH procced again but strangely enough, it procced as LV8, not 7, which means it was skipped. Probably because, like regular TH, it has a low chance of proccing without some form of SA/TA and obviously because I was soloing, i had a low chance of getting a proc, so yeah,,, I agree with Invader, I think TH can proc on WS. --Xynthios 21:27, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Treasure Hunter Reset

So I finally got some confirmation on this. I have had several instances in which it "felt" as though Treasure Hunter didn't activate and I had always suspected it was because I died and didn't perform an action on the mob after raising up. Well, I have some decently compelling evidence that TH does in fact reset when the player with the trait is dropped from the hate list.

I claimed Turul and immediately proc'd TH+6 and 7 from a few melee strikes and subsequently died to Feral Peck -> Shock Spikes. The rest of my party tanked it while I rested. We did not lose claim to it, and I did not zone. When I was unweakened and engaged again, the TH effectiveness increased to 6.

Treasure Hunter does not remain if the player with the trait is removed from the enemy's hate list. Therefore, zoning, or less obviously, dying, will remove the TH effect from the target unless the player with the trait performs an enmity generating action on it again. Additionally, any accumulated effectiveness from melee strikes or SA/TA are lost when all players with the trait are removed from the hate list. --Eremes 23:37, February 19, 2011 (UTC)