七之太刀・雪風：shichi no tachi・Yukikaze- The Sixth style of the Tachi: "Blizzard" (literally: Snow and Wind)
works with SATA? Kimem 07:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it works with SATA. All Great Katana ws's work with SATA. =) --SongOfChaos 17:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Translation is a bit off[]
The translation is a bit off. (Usually happens when people use translate.google.com) Shichi no tachi doesn't have anything with "style". "7th Tachi" is the literal meaning. Tachi are large katana with deep curves.Wikipedia. The 「之」 is just an archaic way to write 「の」. --Aizenmyou 01:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
To clarify, I did not use any site to auto translate what I had input. I don't intend to start a war over it, but I think it's a bit rude to imply it. Anyways, on Tachi: Enpi I clarify the prefix for each of the katana skills (# tachi:), and also why I chose to use 'style of the tachi' as opposed to just 'tachi', but I'll reiterate: Tachi is not just a kind of sword; it is an actual style of sword art. It's an upside katana, balanced to be wielded differently than a katana sword, but otherwise, they're virtually the same thing. Because it is an actual style- or 'form' or 'art'- equivalent to all the other martial arts with weapons or unarmed- I believe it's more appropriate to translate it as 'style' or 'form of the tachi'. That, and to say '# tachi' in translation sounds like you're counting swords, not numbering moves or motions.
Because of that, I'm going to change them back, tentatively. I'm sure you'll have a good argument for the other way, and I can see the point of view on it. But I believe it puts the proper connotation to reference the 'style' as opposed to just numbering a sword. SongOfChaos--00:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
- The Tachi used in the Kanji IS a sword and NOT an art. In most Japanese arts they do call it by number. If you would do a little research you would easily find this out. I provided substantial proof. Going to ask Charitwo to decide if he wants to keep the erroneous translation or use the true one. --Aizenmyou 01:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the links you provided, I'm not sure if you're following the argument. Yes, 之 is the partical no/の, which shows possession, and other subtle linking. That's not the point. I'm talking only about 太刀/'tachi'. An argument like this does not require only a 'little' research. I'm arguing the conotation of the word. The original posters who updated all of the GK WS pages were original Japanese speakers who used the same verbiage (Talk:Tachi:_Enpi). Both Reiryuu and Dryad use the exact phrase 'style of' and Dryad specifically states " "Tachi" means katana itself, and also means "the katana arts"(this wording is right? :D) in this context."
Because it's a context translation, it's not easy to locate web literature that references 'tachi' outside of selling antiques or anime and doujinshi. I'm not at liberty to run to a library, either. Nevertheless, in general sites, they reference it both as a noun (the sword) and a concept (the style of...). On several kendo sites, they refer to '# tachi no kata', where the kata is the form, and the tachi is the style; it corresponds with the writing on the Tachi: Enpi page where I talk about kata, tachi, etc. I've done my research before this debate. I've had native speakers and my teacher confirm that it's both a literal sword and a style of sword practice (because a tachi and a katana are again practically the same thing; it's just how you use it).
If you want to be literal, when translating literally alot of Japanese language breaks down badly, so you know it's not so simple as '# Tachi'. Yes, they number moves, but in the Japanese language, the word 'tachi' is not just a 'tachi'- it's the practice of it. They are numbering the motions/form/moves/styles. If you were being literal in Japanese, it'd be 'Seventh Sword'. Whatever Charitwo goes with, so will be. But I think it's obvious they're saying 'Seventh Form of the Sword', 'Seventh Motion of the Sword', 'Seventh Sword-Art Move'. The only reason I didn't say 'sword' is because 'sword' is too broad, and a tachi, which the tachi style obviously uses, is different from a short blade katana, kunai, wakizashi, etc, and the difference just expands as you bring in even other Eastern weapons (Korean swords, Chinese swords) and extend with other Asian, Euro, etc, etc. It's my opinion, so I won't change anything back until more input is in here other than ours.
I appreciate the links you put for both 'no' and 'tachi', by the way, so if you've noticed, I kept them in the undo's I did. I'll say again bluntly- let's not make it personal. But your translation is just literal. Mine is true, too. Neither is right or wrong. I just think mine translates it more appropriately and completely. --SongOfChaos 03:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
- Not really directed at you; Just annoys me when people with no Martial experience (15+ years here) nor ever lived in Japan (Japanese was also my Minor in College.) make assumptions using internet translating utilities (one of the edits even stats they used google translate which does a horrid job.) Making up imaginary words for blatantly "spelled out" kanji is wrong.
- Also, for the record a Tachi is not a Katana. They are constructed differently. Here is some JP written material (Among countless books written on sword culture, some of which can be bought at the Tokugawa Art Museum in my Favorite city, Nagoya).
- Arbitrarily reverting the changes and then stating to not make it personal contradicts your statement. Charitwo already messaged me in game he will look into this. I'm not going to get into an edit war since they retract upon the spirit of a wiki and I obviously retain a higher notion of that. (I also posted this originally 3 or 4 days before making the changes. No one replied so I made the changes.) I will make no more replies to keep the discussion page clean. --Aizenmyou 04:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
At the risk of starting more drama, there was never a conclusion to this was there? --00:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC) (putting in the old siggy I forgot)
Nothing has come up on it, I don't see any changes anywhere, and Charitwo is silent. I'm putting it back. Anyone disagree, bring up here and we'll start again. --SongOfChaos 00:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- ※Define "Putting it back". Charitwo has been busy, and I've had a hurricane to deal with. --Aizenmyou 06:08, 4 October 2008 (UTC)