Talk: Samurai: Ultimate Guide by Gregedor

I've added the guide to the Samurai job page now. It's in at least a useable form now. Updates will continue though. -- Gregedor

Wow, been a while since I contributed. Updates added. -- Gregedor

Well it's been another month since the last update. Was on vacation visiting my family for some of that. It's late tonight, but I'm going to post an update tomorrow. --Gregedor

Large update, the armor loadouts are mostly complete. --Gregedor 18:22, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

I did a huge reorg and worked on the look and feel some yesterday. --Gregedor 18:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I updated this earlier tonight with putting what might be a premature /DNC section in and I also incorporated Grips into the article. --Gregedor 06:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Well now that my holiday travels are over and my overseas trip for work is done I have time to come back here and update a few things. --Gregedor 17:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Few minor updates to Jobs and Sample Loadouts. More updates forthcoming. --Gregedor 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Did some more editing. I think I have finally fixed all the STR/DEX convertions since they keep playing with two handed weapons. Changed some other things since I finally got a few pieces of gear. More updates to come. --Gregedor 11:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Well it's been a while since updating the guide, but I've been keeping up with the dicussion page. I am having to move for my employer and will be without internet for a while. For those that talk to me on the game I've been vacationing for two weeks and haven't been around. I'll continue to be gone until internet is up at the new place. I'll be back though, I'm not leaving the game anytime soon. =D --Gregedor 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm up and running in my new digs. I've also done some pruning in the guide. I think I'll finally put in the damage reduction and evasion gear sets. Also someone suggested I give several sample loadouts, like a entry, average and ultimate build. I'll consider that, but it is a lot of rewriting and digging into the annals so I'll take it slow. --Gregedor 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Well it took me 5 months, but I've made some more updates. I'm plowing through top to bottom to update things for new gear and changes in gameplay. I cleaned out yet another STR/DEX conversion that was still wrong (thanks AttalusKazaki). --Gregedor 14:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I did some editing throughout the whole guide for grammar and word choice. Shinsoku is added to the GKT listing. Sample loadouts all have grips and ammo listed now. Should have done that long ago, it's a hold over from before grips came out. Tachi: Rana is still not added, but I'm not sure what to say about it other than HEY IT MAKES DARKNESS. Perhaps that's all I really need to say though. --Gregedor 14:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Huge additions! Tachi: Rana is included on the WS section, there's a sample loadout for Rana separate from the previous WS build (now called YGK build). Also I've added damage mitigation gear and evasion gear setups, which have been long in coming. --Gregedor 12:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Many, many edits throughout the weapons & armor sections. Loadouts are updated since I've gotten new stuff, some blurbs on Champion's Galea are thrown in as well. Probably the highlight is I built a new table in the Store TP section that lays out at a glance the levels for virtually all different delay GKT or PLM you can use. --Gregedor 11:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

NEW SECTION! I've put under the strategy area an new section on Hasso/Seigan/Utsu. Go check it out! --Gregedor 11:07, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Updated the job information section. Mostly DNC is updated since the astute Carnivor-Asura saw I was missing job trait information, but I've also gone back and tweaked the other jobs as well. --Gregedor 19:12, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Updated the weapons section yesterday, mostly GKT and PLM updates. --Gregedor 18:11, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Updated the jobs section for level 80 cap. Since we're not to the 99 cap yet, I'm not going to speculate on how the 40-49 Job Abilities and Traits are going to shake out. I would encourage everyone to get their subs up to level 49 though in anticipation. Also, I went through the armor section and changed some things. Later this week I'll do the same to weapons and so forth. --Gregedor 19:34, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Updated jobs again for 90 cap. Updated my loadouts for all the setups minus the VIT, Dmg Mitigation and Evasion Tanking. Looking at SAM/RNG and SATA setups I realized I hadn't done these in forever (basically since before Abyssea hit). I'll have to put some more time into that in the coming days. Expect some new sections: Magian Weapons commentary, Staggers, Atmas for SAM, and probably a quick section on Abyssites. --Gregedor 01:38, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

Atmas now added. Weapons for 75-90 are now added. Weaponskill section updated. What else... need to update gear commentary. Still working on my SAM+1 set myself, but full SAM+2 is the way to go based on my calcs. The only exception might be to not use Kote for TP gain, you can do slightly better with a haste item, but it's very minuscule and you lose some of the set bonus.--Gregedor 00:16, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Very Nice Guide

This is a very nice guide you have created. I have been following this guide very closely. Recently I have achieved 75 SAM on Remora. Reading your guide recently I have noticed you are creating a section with sets of armor. I happen to have compiled a majority of setups for 6 hit, 5 hit, haste, and tank. I would love to help you and share my insight with you. You can email me or post a responce. Brettherold@sbcglobal.net

Billbab

yes indeed i learned alot from this guide thank you Gregedor

I love this guide as well. I was reading it before I hit 75 and I continue to read it after I managed to hit 75 I still come back and read it every time I try something new on my SAM (like when I was getting ready to do the ACP final battle as /RNG). It's a great guide to help get people pointed in the right direction, I recommend it to everyone I know who levels SAM. --Veloxe 14:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

5 Hit 450 delay possible!

Crunching your formula and info I was able to assemble a 450 delay 5 hit setup.

Billbab

/Dancer

Hey :) just a few comments on dancer sub job. The drain/aspir samba does not function like an en-spell. it just converts the damage you allready inflict into hp or mp for yourself. You forgot the Job traits comming with /dnc. You get Evasion Bonus at SAM30/DNC15 and you get Accuracy Bonus at SAM60/DNC30 ^^ You also get access to resist slow and subtle blow.

-=Carnivor-Asura 12:36, October 30, 2009 (UTC)=-

Gregedor: Correct, the Drain/Aspir Sambas do not pull it from the monster, but rather just create it out of thin air. It's useful for people to think of it as en-drain/en-aspir though especially since it will not stack with other en-spells. For the job traits, that's a good catch! I wrote the section early on in DNC and have not gone back to update the information. I'll update that the next time I tweak the guide. --Gregedor 19:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

5 Hit Setups

I believe I addressed that briefly in the StoreTP section. It's possible, but not very practical since you have to dump a lot of other stats for more StoreTP. Usukane feet can really put you a good ways towards it without sacrificing anything. I'm still 2/3 on my Usukane feet.

-Gregedor

How much?

The real question is how much would that improve anbd show in results.

Billbab

Soboro

" * Level 50 - Soboro Sukehiro Again, another sword I wish was around when I was this level. Odds are unless you have a higher level job you probably won't get around to getting this when you are level 50. Not an easy item to achieve at all. The fight is hard and the drop rate lousy. It will be the best damage output until the mid-high 60s, but by 75 it's mostly relegated to being a SAM/RNG or SAM/DNC sword only, or for having fun. It is a TON of fun. I will add that once you get to 75 with endgame STR gear the WS perk up enough to make it useful again. That gap from about 67-74 though it really peeters out"

Firstly the soboro droprate is 53.3% so the droprate is by no means "lousy", infact it is extraordinarely good. We just went 5/5 on this sword and i got it being 42 samurai at the time. The fight isnt hard either if you got competent blackmages. -=|Carnivor-Asura 12:32, October 22, 2009 (UTC)|=-

You are extraordinarily lucky to go 5/5. It took me 4 wins just for my sword. I think our best outing was 2/6. It is easy with lots of BLMs, but I've never had more than 2 in any alliance. Doing it with melee stuns is interesting to say the least, but winnable. --Gregedor 22:37, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Yes i didnt meen that 5/5 is by any means common. And is very lucky considering the drop rate. We had a 100% droprate and thats pure luck. However, the droprate is still 50%+ normally, and that means basically you will under normal circumstances get 1/2. And in FFXI that is a very good droprate. Theres so many that are below 10% even. You said you went 1/4, and that is still a good droprate :) 25% ^^ -=Carnivor-Asura 13:01, October 29, 2009 (UTC)=-

Oh and thanks alot for this guide. i have found it very helpfull and thorough. -=Carnivor-Asura 13:01, October 29, 2009 (UTC)=-

5 Hit Setup

Well if we're using Hagun it's 74 StoreTP on at all times, even more if you're going to drop below 74 on your weaponskill. Well it becomes impossible to do a 5 hit build if you're dropping too low on the weaponskill so you're going to inherently weaken your weaponskills to maintain the higher StoreTP. For the sake of argument though, yes it is possible to have a 5 hit build.

One example is +35 from job and merits, +6 from Usukane body, +7 from Usukane feet, +8 from Hachiman kote, +6 from shinimusha haidate, +5 from Rajas ring, +1 for brutal earring, +1 from chivalrous chain and eat Arrabbiato for 5 more. This is exactly 74 StoreTP, meaning you can't take it off for your weaponskills. In your neck/earring/rings/feet/food you've not really lost anything. However, body/legs/hands have taken a dive. Usukane body does well at making up for Haubergeon but it's not quite the same. I wouldn't criticize anyone that wore it though. Wearing hachiman kote over O.kote/bando kote/dusk gloves though is a sizeable hit, especially during weaponskills where you can normally get Alkyoneus's kote for +11 strength. The legs is the biggest nose-dive of all though. Instead of Shura Haidate or Byakko's Haidate you have on a piece that all it gives is StoreTP, no other stats.

So you've gained more TP, but now you're swinging slower, doing less damager per swing, and decreased the damage on each weaponskill. You're gaining 20% more weaponskills, but you gave up 8% haste, 12 Str and 12-24 attack. So you're only about 12% faster at WS and then you're losing roughly 6% STR and 6% attack over your 6 hit build. To me it's a wash, or a slight hit, and it's far harder to implement a 5 hit build with all those Usukane pieces in there.

If you attempt to regain some of that STR and attack by dropping StoreTP on weaponskills it only means you have to wear even more StoreTP on melee hits to keep the build. This is a problem for 5 hit builds because there isn't much left out there to give you StoreTP. You're talking losing even Usukane body to go for Shinimusha Hara-ate, then grabbing Bushido Cape and Atilla's Earring just to get those last few points you need, possibly some Hachiman Kote +1.

Where the 5 hit build can work is with Futsuno Mitama. Since it gives you +8 StoreTP, which is huge, and with 480 delay only needs 54 StoreTP to reach a 5 hit build, this is entirely feasable. In fact, due to the higher delay, I wouldn't use this sword without a 5 hit build. 54 is easy to reach by comparison and you can safely drop StoreTP for damage gear on weaponskills and compensate for it. The only flaw is the weapon doesn't have the TP Bonus like Hagun does so your weaponskills will be weaker. This is compensated a bit by the higher damage on the weapon, both for WS and for melee hits. To fully make up for losing Hagun though, someone has to figure out the latent +8 STR. Unfortunately it's an AV drop so there aren't that many people who can experiment, and all the tests I've heard of haven't worked.

--Gregedor

6 hit build with 45?

I did a little calculating myself, and got the following numbers:

11.5 (450 delay TP) * 1.45 (45 Store TP) = 16.675

FFXI drops everything after the first decimal, so that becomes 16.6.

16.6 * 6 = 99.6

I did a quick test, SAM74 (Trait 25), Rajas (5), Shinimusha Haidata (6) and Shinimusha Hata-Ate (9). Exactly 45 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at 99% TP.

46 Store TP would be:

11.5 * 1.46 = 16.790 16.7 * 6 = 100.2

I added a Chivalrous Chain to the above setup, for exactly 46 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at exactly 100% TP.

Personally, from 70-74 I used the following as TP build:

Haubergeon (I agree, Hachiman Domaru has no business here) Optical Hat (Accuracy baby) Chivalrous Chain (+1) Hachiman Kote (+8) Rajas Ring (+5) Shinimusha Haidate (+6) Hachiman Sune-Ate (+5)

This, combined with my trait gives me Store TP +50. 4 over the mark, but I don't see a way to get the additional 2 I need to be able to drop the Haidate. Also, if I accidentally get a hit or three (Soboro Sukehiro) wearing my rngacc setup (for sidewinder), my TP build can usually see me to 100% still.

1 merit should be enough to be able to wear stuff like Shura or Byakko's Haidate.

--Drwilco

StoreTP Merits

The point is not 1 merit to make it good enough, but a full 5 so that you just straight up toss Shinimusha Haidate and Hachiman Kote for better stuff.

--Gregedor 17:38, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Oh agreed

It's definately true that a full 5 merits allows you to use much nicer setups. My point was that you say it's Store TP+45 you need to get, when in reality it's Store TP+46.

--Alananir 16:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Halberd

What about adding this to the Polearm section?

Glamdring

Sure thing, working on adding a few weapons actually.

--Gregedor 17:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Damage reduction vs Defense

Which one is more important?

Looking around on gears as far as tanking goes, I see that the ones that you have selected definitely have more raw defense over all. But what about damage reduction? You mentioned the arhat's gi and rings but I think you could actually take it a step further.

Lets say you have the Arhat's Gi, Defense Ring, Jelly Ring, now add in the Askar Gambieras, and the new Iron Ram Lance from Campaign, and you are looking at a solid -36% damage reduction. Put high defense items and or evasion and parry items for the remaining slots, and I think you could have a pretty solid tanking setup. Hell, you could even go crazy and get a shadow mantel for additional damage reduction. With this setup, throw up defender, eat some food, keep Seigan and Third Eye up, and you can really take some serious hits. Of course, someone will still have to SATA on to you, but this build still keeps hate better than most NIN tanks can on it's own. At least that is what I think anyway. This is all kind of theoretical after all.

Tell me what you think.

--Polive

P.S. And yes, I know SAMs aren't really accepted tanks, and it's too bad too, since SE made them out to be tanks to begin with. I would really enjoy seeing an all around plausible tanking build that actually works as well as a PLD in regular situations.

Yes, my tanking sections are pretty light at the moment. I just stopped after the defense gear that day because I was tired and didn't pick it back up. What I need to add are Damage Reduction gear like you mentioned and Evasion gear for blink tanking. I will say that the odds of a Samurai getting a defending ring (unless they have PLD or NIN) are going to be very very low.

Most times though I only carry my god set around and swap that on. I have the Haidate and Sune-ate all the time, one for regular use and the other for those pesky NINs in Dynamis. I also take my Osode just in case I feel like switching things up. Since I'm already hauling 3/5 around, I typically just skip any other setups and just bring the full god set. It works decently well at reducing damage. These numbers are just anecdotal, but last week at Omega it meant I was taking about a ~200 damage hit versus ~300. That's a considerable reduction just from adding defense. I don't really test this section much though since it's never been my goal to tank Seiryu as a SAM lol.

I'll certainly add some other loadouts though.

--Gregedor 17:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

DNC sub

dont know if your dnc is still at 16, but a soboro sam subbing dnc is pretty much an inexhaustible well of cure IIs. For solo reasons, it is possibly one of the best combinations for low downtime and high survivability.

Yes, mine is still a sad 16, but I've updated the section to reflect reality lol. --Gregedor 22:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

New Gears

Hey, I was looking through all the new gear introduced in the June 9 2008 update, and several caught my eye. What do you think about these particular pieces? I'd like to hear your opinion, been a fan of your guide and I reference it often for my self. Black Tathlum /Hachiryu Haramaki/ Hachiryu Haidate /Enkidu's Harness /Nobushi Kyahan /Nanatsusaya /Pachipachio /Tomoe

Thanks,

--Polive

Well...it's like Wednesday and the stuff came out Monday lol. It's going to take a while to make some write ups and certainly longer to actually get any of it. I wish I had it all today but I don't.

Black Tathlum is pure win, if I can get one there's no need for the stupid Tiphia Sting. The tathlum is double the stats with no negatives.
Hachiryu Haramaki is interesting. It is obviously a MNK's wet dream, but for SAM it's kind of a mixed emotion. We have other options like Hauby/Hauby+1, Askar, Byrnie/Byrnie+1, etc. if you want pure attack and damage. For accuracy the +20 beats even my Hauby+1 by 4. I think the crit hits are going to put it over the other contenders though so I'm going to check it out.
Hachiryu Haidate OK THIS IS NOT FREAKING FAIR! I just busted tail for Usukane Hizayoroi and this is double the STR. Hachiryu is without a doubt going to be the new king on WS gear. Time to start from square one again.
Enkidu's Harness seems like a Hauby replacement. It doesn't have the DEX but it also doesn't have -20 evasion and -5 AGI. It won't stack up in damage to Hauby becasue of the DEX and definitely won't beat the new Hachiryu Haramaki. I could see using this when tanking/solo though over my Kirin's Osode.
Nobushi Kyahan um...I guess you could use these over Hachiman at 70, but they won't beat the options to a 75 Samurai. I really wasn't that impressed. The only slightly interesting thing is you can have 3 "Enhances Rice Balls" on now (head, hands, feet). This would make a Tonosama Rice Ball give you 150 atk, 90 defense, 3% double attack. The downside, as before, is the three items you have to wear (except for the AF+1 hands) really are pretty sad. Also I would have to give up (in my build) 10% haste which is huge. I don't think I'll bite on this piece.
Nanatsusaya well it's got really good DPS compared to other GKT out there. You'd of course have to stack it up to Hagun just like all the other GKT. I have a feeling it will lose out.
Pachipachio um well the DPS on this is actually pretty low and I never like -6 accuracy. With 480 delay you could go for a 5 hit build and try it out. If you stay on a 6 hit build I'm fairly certain it has no hope of beating Hagun.
Tomoe well I've been sporting the Iron Ram Lance lately which has really good DPS and the -10% damage taken. This should beat that easily. Basically the same principle as Engetsuto. With the 480 delay you can go for a 5 hit build potentially and it's got a really high base damage which will give better Penta Thrusts than the IR Lance. I like the 5 accuracy and 5 attack helping out. Pure win in my book.

--Gregedor 05:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

awesome, thanks for the quick response. I think I got pretty much the same feeling as you for all of those pieces, just wanted to confirm them with someone else. I'd have to say that I feel iffy about the Hachiryu Haramaki like you do. If you use it to TP in, it might be alright, but that would mean you'd have to swap it out for a WS right? or do you think the extra 5 att and critical +5% is gonna be enough to over take the loss of 6 STR on the haubby +1?

--Polive

Hmm, I don't know on the 5% critical. Criticals aren't double damage so it's not a 5% damage boost it's something less than that. On the raw stats though of 20atk vs. 6 STR and 12 atk, the hauby+1 should win easily. --Gregedor 16:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I was checking in to see what you've added since the level cap increase... and remembering why this guide is so epic. I thought I'd let you know about two new grips that are great pre-30 (maybe even pre-50, but it's your guide, and your call). One grip I stumbled upon by accident ("What's this funny name? Impossible to gauge? Kirr!!!") is level 5, the Tenax Strap, and offers Attack +1. The second is the Disciple Grip at 15, which gives Accuracy +1. Both are incredibly easy to get and sell for next to nothing on the AH. I recommend adding those to your grips section, as they're easily obtainable and give stats that are hard to find at low levels. --Lastarael 02:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

300% Great Katanas?

Since the advent of Sekkanoki wouldn't you say that Ushikirimaru isn't needed? And once you get your paws on a Hagun, Onimaru can go right out the window too. I just wouldn't say that Hagun isn't the most expensive though. Going rate on Fairy is 2.7 mil these days, making it the most expensive weapon bar Amanomurakumo.

--Alananir 01:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long, I've been on a two week vacation prior to changing bases.

Well with Sekkanoki it means that you can do a 300% hit and a 200% hit back to back. Obviously with a Hagun then you have a 300% hit and a 300% hit. So if Sekkanoki is available, yes the Onimaru/Ushikirimaru aren't necessary. It is still true though that at 300% the Hagun is not the best GKT so if Sekkanoki is down you could argue that you still want to hang on to the other swords.

Hagun was 1M when I wrote the piece originally because of the lack of Samurai hanging around and I think I paid 1.5M back in the day. After all the two-handed weapon tweaks and the new Samurai abilities over the past 6 months I have watched the price slowly creep up to 2M on my server. In the last month the price jumped from 2M to 3M. I have no clue what has caused this latest price increase. Certainly 3M is not cheap, but it is still definitely worth getting. Shinsoku comparatively has declined from 2M+ in the old days to about 100k now. I've seen many Samurai using Shinsoku until they work up the cash for Hagun. Personally I'm more in favor of Onimaru/Ushikirimaru until you get Hagun money. I'm not going to edit my article today but I'll remove the reference to Hagun being cheap since the markets have drastically changed.

Gregedor 16:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Healing Waltz

When I first heard about the way DNC worked I thought it would be a great sub for SAM, I was right, but even more so, I was AMAZED by Healing waltz. Your guide mentions it as an erase, but in reality it is like a single target benediction without the healing. It literally cures ALL STATUS AILMENTS (albeit one at a time, but it is still absolutely FANTASTIC). I cannot stress how much this ability has come in handy during solo situations. I would strongly advise you to test it out yourself.

Well it's Erase + most of the -na spells. It still does not remove Terror, Doom and some others just like Erase. I certainly won't equate it to Benediction since that removes all status ailments at once plus heals full HP... It's simply an erase+.

--Gregedor 16:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Merits

Your guide offers a lot of information on equipment and job roles, but it doesn't cover merit specific abilities for SAM.

As a SAM, which merits do you find most useful from groups 1 and 2? I know that Store TP 5/5 is a must, but to me there is some value in both Third Eye and meditate. I have 5 merits in Third Eye because I duo and solo a lot, but I wonder how you feel about the meditate merits. In group 2 Overwhelm 5/5 looks like a definite, and Ikishoten seems to me at the moment completely useless. The choice that I have a hard time with is Blade Bash 5/5 or Shikikoyo 5/5. At max merits, both become 5 minute abilities, and I really don't have any interest in dividing the points among them unless there is some really great advantage to be gained. On one hand, blade bash would help me with soloing and lower my TP feed, especially when I go soboro/dnc, on the other hand, a fast shikikoyo will get me more opportunities to let my duoing partner set up a darkness or light SC for me to close. Which merits do you personally have? What are your thoughts on the matter?

Thanks in advance,

--Polive 23:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Well if you solo a bunch I suppose Third Eye merits might be handy, but in terms of being the best DD it doesn't get you too far. Keep the meditate merits. Overwhelm is a must, Ikishoten is lame. Since your goal is not to miss, it means your goal is not to have Zanshin proc ever, which mean your goal is to wipe out the need for Ikishoten. I haven't filled out my tier 2 yet due to RL things, but I'll prob end up splitting with 4/5 on Shikikoyo and 1 in Blade Bash just to have it. Blade bash at 5 minutes I feel isn't going to be as useful as giving TP to your partner every 7.5 minutes. I might even go 5/5 Shikikoyo since I've done 4 years without blade bash just fine. =P

--Gregedor 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

9 Sep 2008 Update

Well here we are, another version update! Mythic weapons yay???

As I read the datamining results I'm kind of left with mixed feelings. The new weaponskill being a threefold attack is interesting as is the Mythic Weapon having occasionally attacks twice, but WTF is up with enhanced Third Eye? I guess it might mean saving your bacon after using such a powerful weapon. It seems out of place right now. On to some armor!

Grenadier Belt - HOLY CRAP (for inside campaign)
Gnadbhod's Helm - Very nice for WS, but take off fast due to Slow%
Zha'Go's Barbut - Looks like a replacement for Optical Hat on SAM/RNG builds.
BLU, PUP , COR stuff looks good, my WHM can get a Spirit Taker-esque WS for club, but none of that is relevant here lol, more to come!

--Gregedor 18:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Weaponskill Gearsetup Accuracy

I don't know if you ever address this particular issue, but it really feels like a lot of Accuracy is being sacrificed when you swap to your weaponskill gear set (felt all the more acutely since I am an Elvaan). I do hit 95% capped accuracy on my TP/haste build with full GK merits, but I feel like I am dropping below the cap when I swap to WS. Here's my TP and WS set as of right now:

Melee/TP Build

Weapon: Hagun
Head: Askar Zucchetto
Body: Haubergeon
Hands: Hachiman Kote
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Fuma Sune-Ate

Weaponskill Build

You seem to like math, so I'm gonna throw you some numbers. Adding total DEX and converting to acc (4 dex to 3 acc) and adding the remaining acc (including GK merits) together, the total acc on TP set comes to 69, while the WS set comes to 51 (assuming gorgets give +7 acc, comparable to the J-torque). That is a net loss of 18 acc straight off the bat. As of right now, the loadout isn't that much different from your posted WS set, with the main difference in me losing about 9 acc from using kosode instead of Hauby +1. But that difference is about made up by me using the Shura Haidates instead of the Usukane Pants. I am hitting... close enough to cap using this WS set that I don't feel pressured to get more accuacy... yet.

The trouble starts when I start predicting changes that I will want to work on, and begin replacing pieces to increase damage output. The biggest item that comes to mind is obviously the Hachiryu Haidate. Swapping that on should do wonders for damage but will cost me 7 acc. If I wanted to wear a Gnadbhod's Helm that will cost me another 2 acc after dex to acc conversion. Suddenly I am losing another 9 acc combined from my WS acc total. It seems to me that stacking damage isn't going to do much if I start crashing in WS acc rate.

Now, I can swap out certain pieces to sacrifice a bit of STR in order to get back some acc. Using an STR to Att conversion rate of 1 STR to ~4.5 Att (on how much each point of STR affects YGK damage to how much each point of Att affects them, I got this number from testing damage on Smilodon +1 to Amament +1, if I am way off please correct me), the Top contenders are at the moment (in order of best conversion rate to worst):

Haubergeon +1 over Kirin's Osode: Net loss of ~6.5 attack for net gain of ~9 acc
Cuchulain's Mantle over Forager's Mantle: Net loss of ~10.5 att for net gain of ~8 acc
Potent Belt over Warwolf Belt: Net loss of ~9 att for a net gain of ~4.25 acc
Usukane Sune-Ate over Rutter Sabatons: Net loss of 11.5 acc for net gain of ~7 acc

I did not include anything with a net loss in att of over 12.5 because that is the net gain over Shura Zunari Kabuto from wearing Gnadbhod's Helm. It seems pointless to simply swap acc and damage around, the point here is to boost both attack and accuracy in the end.

I know you have a spreadsheet at your disposal for calculating damage, but does that spreadsheet also factor in the total damage after calculating accuracy? I have full GK merits, and I am asking what the best balance of acc to STR is on the WS set. You seem to be encouraging an almost purely STR stacked set of gear, but in the long run, will that be better than the set that land hits more consistently? If you graphed total damage according to hit rate and attack, there should be a sweet spot that guarantees you the highest possible total weaponskill damage over time. What acc and att is that sweet spot at? And which gears should be used to get closest to that sweet spot?

--Polive 17:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, Polive, that's quite a post!

I've tweaked my wording in the guide some for the WS gear section. After the last tweak to YGK there appears to be an inherent accuracy boost to the WS. This is due to it being one hit so SE obviously doesn't want us dropping to 80% accuracy when we cram on the WS gear. I've seen conflicting reports...but I'd go with YGK being around 40 accuracy boost on your WS. Rana, Jinpu and the others do not have this benefit.

There is also less of a correlation on attack boosting damage which is why I say 4-5 (probably more like 5+) attack is equivalent to adding 1 STR. Again, no firm numbers out there, but YGK seem to give a % boost to your attack. Because of this each single point of attack will have less and less effect (diminishing returns) than it normally would. Eventually you will hit the Attack/Defense ratio cap of 2.0 and gain nothing from your extra attack. For most merit mobs this is around 680-700 attack. If you're there normally... no more attack gear! Even if you're down more around 550-600 the YGK boost seems to mitigate more attack. Certainly if you get more STR and more Attack in one piece (like I did with Usukane Hizayoroi) then go for that piece.

So, getting back to your setups. You can drop the 18 accuracy just fine on WS. I'd say you can drop 30 safely. More than that you're closing in on the theoretical accuracy boost on YGK. You can extend this out further with mixed foods such as Hedgehog Pie or Marinara Pizza.

Hachiryu Haidate and Gnadbhod's Helm are great improvements you definitely want to have. I would be working on them now if I wasn't overcomitted and on EU time... Personally I like my Hauby+1 over Osode, but that's a real toss up. Go with what you like. My take on Cuchulain's Mantle is don't bother. Warwolf vs. Potent is a good place to regain a few accuracy points, but more importantly you can shed 3 enmity without a large hit to damage. Keep both for differing situations. Rutter Sabatons hands down for WS.

In the end you've lost 27 accuracy I think over your melee build. This shouldn't be noticeable. If you like though you can go parse during a merit session and compare before and after your WS hit rate. I'm sure this is how they noticed that YGK got an accuracy boost in the first place. I'm not a huge parse fiend myself, usually there's someone out there that's done the grunt labor already and you can feed the numbers into a spreadsheet to crunch some data. Sorry for being a month late on your post!

--Gregedor 14:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Champion's Galea

With the new Mini expansion out. One of the possible rewards turns out to not be a very bad item for Samurai. The raw damage output on a Gnadbhod's Helm may still be better, but The difference will be at most only 8 attack. Plus, you get a lot more accuracy on the Champion's Galea. In fact, having just the 4STR and 15 WS acc on it alone would make it a better piece than the Optical Hat for Sidewinder. As for the second augment, that is where I am not quite sure. The tossup is between the 2STR 2 haste and the 2% WS damage 4AGI. If I were going to make it a dedicated sidewinder helm then the 4 AGI is obviously hands down the winner. However, if I wanted to replace my Shura zunari kabuto, Which one will get me higher damage output? And I mean against higher tier mobs, since the 2% WS damage will most likely win out on anything T and below.

--Polive 20:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I've decided from listening to others and getting one myself that the 2% Weaponskill Damage will beat out the additional 2 STR you could get. This would of course mean that the best GKT WS piece is also the best Sidewinder piece... and not all that shabby for Penta Thrust either. Overall I'm very impressed with the Champion's Galea. Part of the heartache for me though, is the best WHM piece is also available through this... as would be a great THF WS piece... so I've had to pick one job over the others and I'm going with SAM baby! Unlike the ACP body where you essentially can only get an equal piece to others available on the market, here you can get a superior one. --Gregedor 11:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Recent Update

So, abit of a question about the recent Utsu/Hasso/Seigan update to the guide.. I can't log on to double check this, but I'm pretty sure Utsu: Ni doesn't overwrite either Utsu: Ni OR Utsu: Ichi, though utsu: Ichi will overwrite Utsu:Ichi, so am I misremembering, or was this an accidental error, or was it just changed recently? --Alaik (originally unsigned)

Utsu:Ni can overwrite itself or Ichi, and Utsu:Ichi can overwrite itself. I don't think this has ever changed. Same tier spells overwrite and higher can overwrite lower but not the other way around. This is similar to the Dia > Bio > Dia II > Bio II progression if you're a mage. Dia can overwrite dia, but dia cannot overwrite dia II.

If your timers are coming back up in time, this is a good way to extend out your shadows coverage, but most likely you won't have Ni ready with Ni shadows remaining. Ichi is more possible due to the shorter recast. I have found it much safer to go Third Eye > Ichi > Ni > Third Eye rather than getting into the whole TE > Ichi > Ichi > Ni or TE > Ichi > Ni > Ni and it's certainly better than trying TE > Ichi > Ni > cancel Ni > Ichi. That's just a fumbling hassle that you don't need. If you're not using Seigan, sure go ahead and chain your utsu. But with seigan up just go to Third Eye. If you have Seigan up and you're not using Third Eye, then why do you have Seigan up? Just go with Hasso or nothing. --Gregedor 08:39, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Tachi:Rana & Amanomurakumo Epicness

I've been wondering about something for a little bit, working it around in the old noggin.

If you combined Relic GKT+tach:rana, wouldn't rana become the strongest ws in the game, you get the +20 accuracy and the occasionaly 2.5 dmg multiplier, might make this a monster 3 hit ws, plus if you throw in the champions galea you have +15 ws acc, and probably another good deal of acc on the rest of your gear, so you should hit at least 2/3 hits on about 15-25% of ws's, and 3/3 hits on the rest of your ws's (normal merit mobs, would never use rana on a god or something until I got a chance to test extensively on merit mobs) basically with the 2.5 dmg boost on occasional hits, let's say 1/3 hits gets the dmg boost, that's still 1 hit with roughly a 87.5% str modifier, and 2 hits with 35% str mod (and from most parses I've seen the relic GK activates the dmg mod about 35-50% of the time)

so lets say the dmg bonus activates every 1 out of 3 hits, a little math for myself more than anything ;p

(STRmod x total STR)(dmg bonus), and lets say you have a total str of about 140 for YGK and about 125 for rana to get a little more acc out of the build for more hits

with YGK you get (75%x145)(2.5), (75%x145), (75%x145), thats 3 seperate ws's for 3 hits and 1 relic dmg bonus activation, totalling 300~ tp used

with Rana you get (35%x125)+(2.5)+(35%x125)+(35%x125), all in 1 ws for 100~tp so multiply by 3 for the same amount of tp as listed for YGK's, you can even take out a relic activation hit and a normal hit to be a pessimist about rana not hitting well, and still get more dmg out of 300%tp i think... plus with 3 YGK's on the 2nd ws your pushing past the high end of the activation rate on the relic, so 2 hits each with the dmg bonus is fairly unlikely, whereas with 3xrana's you get maybe 7-8 hits, 9 if your lucky, so on 9 hits you have 4 hits that are below the high end 50% activation rate, so a much greater chance of really splitting some merit mob in twain.

The only drawback that comes to mind is the skillchain difference, where I can do back to back Tachi:Kaiten with 3 ws's for 2 light skillchains (assuming the mob doesnt resist the skillchain damage) the 1st light will be 100% dmg and the 2nd light will be 150% dmg, so its's like 5.5 ws's, with 1 of them (realistically) having the 2.5 dmg bonus, which depending on when the dmg bonus activated could make for a huge skillchain. I can't do back to back skillchains with 3xrana so that kinda sucks

just something to think about, I'm a couple of months from stage5 and about the same from unlocking Rana for all GK's, so I will post on my results when i get them. I personally think this is going to blow some people away when i break it out for the 1st time in front of them ;p I still need to do a little more math and get my gear together for each build, but I think for single 100% tp ws's tach:rana+relicGKT with the right gear has the most potential.

sorry for any spelling mistakes or if the math seems crazy, I'm in Iraq and I've been up for a looong time ;p JavelinX 13:01, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Gregedor: Moved your section to a new topic. While the 2.5 multiplier is indeed cool, it does not activate during weaponskills. Rana probably won't be your main attack, but rather Kaiten for normal mobs. On gods/bosses/etc the standard YGK can actually outperform Kaiten I'm told. --Gregedor 19:56, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Soborro v Hacchonenbutsu?

Having recently gotten a Hacchonenbutsu dangozashi from ZNM was looking at the low delay and wondered if would be a viable substitute for Soboro in some situation. As I don't have a Soborro atm can't test myself but wondered if anyone has done some testing SAM/DNC or SAM/RNG for tp gain with constant low delay against Soborro's multi hit procs. --Intergalacticsockpuppet 18:12, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Gregedor: Well... Soboro will do a multiple hit about 45% of the time. I remember reading that somewhere, maybe BG. Anyways, let's assume it is 45% of the time. The base delay is 450. If you assume you swing 1.45 times per round, that's the same as having a delay of about 311. Now that math is double attacking, if you triple attack some of that time then you have an even lower equivalent delay. If we low-ball the Soboro and say it only double attacks 30% of the time then the equivalent delay is 346. Since Hacchonenbutsu is a 378 delay it doesn't come close if all you're concerned with is TP gain for /DNC or /RNG. Hacchonenbutsu does have a vastly higher base damage and on the average a higher DPS. Soboro is 5.33 DPS when single swinging, 8 double, and 16 triple (according to FFXIclopedia) but you don't double/triple every round. So... basically for TP gain Hacchonenbutsu not the same, but it is the next best GKT. For damage it should be consistently better than Soboro, which might make it more appealing for /DNC or /RNG. Congrats on getting it! --Gregedor 20:11, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Gregedor In checking the discussion pages for new posts I felt I needed to comment further on the above reply. Also bear in mind that Soboro will function like a really low delay GKT but still gains the TP per hit of a 450 delay weapon. The Hacchonenbutsu will swing like a 378 and gain TP at that rate. So that's yet another strike if all you want is TP gain for /DNC or /RNG. --Gregedor 02:19, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Underestimating Polearm.

Hi Gregedor,

I like your guide as it is the only one that goes into any real depth on WIKI, but I do feel you underestimate the power Polearm as it really isn't just for "Too Weak" mobs as I can cap accuracy on Greater Colibri "Very Tough" without using any accuracy food or BRD/COR buffs. It does destroy Great Katana on all things bar HNM/Gods, Skeletons or <insert random high EVA THF/NIN mob>.

To be used to the maximum you ideally need 8/8 Polearm merits of course as it's highly accuracy dependent, but with the addition of Marinara Pizza/+1 it makes it so powerful as that gives ACC & ATK to Penta Thrust which is what it craves. Think about it, on one hand you have: (GKT 6hit/1hit WS) Vs (PLM 5hit/5hit WS)Which of course is a no brainer. Only downside to Polearm is the lack of SkillChain possibilities but with the higher DoT with a 20% WS frequency increase that is small change in reality.

I now use Tomoe in Kirin burns as it consistently out parses my Hagun by a considerable amount (Of course BRD must be used to achieve the higher accuracy required as this fella is very high level).

DRK as an example have 2 weapons of which are similar stature to SAM in Great Sword & Scythe, GS being the better for single hit WS weapon when used /THF for HNM/GOD or w/e but outside that Scythe being the multi-hit trumps GS, esp /WAR as Guillotine/Penta Thursts ATK is unlikely to be capped, hell it's basically impossible to cap ATK on Great Colibri anyway where as the single hit WS already have capped ACC/ATK besides on Kirin/JoL.

Love your guide, but I feel you neglect Polearm somewhat :(

Thanks. Dirtyfinger

Gregedor: I do admit I need to go back and revisit some of the polearm stuff. However, I still feel the use is limited, at least compared with GKT. Even with 8/8 Polearm merits you have only 256 skill. With 8/8 GKT you have 292 skill. If you are lucky enough to have Love Torque you have 263 but with GKT you can have upwards of 304. So for instance, I have max GKT at 304 and let's assume I go 8/8 PLM and have 256. That puts my PLM already nearly 50 accuracy down and 50 attack down. Now you're right, Marinara Pizza can wipe out the difference, but you can use Marinara Pizza on GKT and widen the gap again. Or, conversely, since GKT already has the accuracy you can eat a big meat dish and blow the attack well past your PLM.
Now on the 6 hit/1 hit WS vs. the 5 hit/5 hit WS -- there are GKT you can get a 5 hit build on and there's only a few PLM that SAM can use that you can make a 5 hit build on. If the goal is to compare Hagun though to a Tomoe, then yes it's most likely a 6 vs. 5 discussion. However, the 1 hit WS and 5 hit WS is not a useful comparison. The 1 hit WS is likely doing as much damage as 4 or 5 of the Penta hits. So if you wiff on Penta you're likely not doing as much damage as the 1 hit GKT WS. Also, since you've likely sized your build properly, you don't need the extra 4% TP gain from Penta thrust to make your build level, since any hit past the first does not give the full TP gain but only 1% (it used to a loooooong time ago). Therefore, I think the argument basically is comparing a 6 hit Hagun DoT to a 5 hit PLM DoT, keeping in mind you have less attack and accuracy in your PLM build. I myself am looking to get a better PLM (lol Iron Ram Lance) so I'll work some numbers in the old spreadsheet.
The final comparison to DRK is also not useful. It is their primary weapon that has the higher skill and the multihit. Even if their secondary (Great Sword) were the multihit WS, they cap at 269 skill pre merits and gear. While SAM PLM cannot even reach 269 skill full decked out. DRK and indeed WAR in this respect are more versatile in that their top two weapons are both A ratings. SAM meanwhile is an A and a B.
Don't construe this as PLM = Bad, but it will never be your best. If you had to choose between spending time and money on GKT or PLM but not enough to do both, I would stick with GKT. If you have time for both then by all means, it only makes you that much more useful. Now, if you could convince Square to give SAM the Trial PLMs... maybe then we can talk real damage. =D --Gregedor 23:46, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Gregedor: So I've broken out my spreadsheet and compared Hagun to Tomoe using pretty good setups. Hagun setup: Pole Grip, Tiphia Sting, Justice Torque, Bushinomimi, Brutal Earring, Rajas Ring, Divisor Ring, Amemet Mantle +1, Swift Belt, Askar Zucchetto, Hauby +1, Dusk Gloves, Byakko's Haidate, Usukane Sune-Ate. -- Basically what I wear at the moment. Tomoe setup: Pole Grip, Tiphia Sting, Peacock Charm, Aesir Ear Pendant, Brutal Earring, Rajas Ring, Divisor Ring, Amemet Mantle +1, Swift Belt, Full Usukane Set.
Assume 304 GKT skill and 256 PLM skill. Popping in a Lvl 81 mob with 325 Evasion yields 95% accurate for GKT and 93.5% for PLM with Hasso active. These setups give the 6 hit build on Hagun and 5 hit build on Tomoe. Just looking at DoT, the Hagun still wins against non-piercing weak mobs with 5.6% more DoT. Tomoe is going to build TP in 1765 delay and Hagun in 1956. If the two delays were equal it'd be 20% improvement, but since they are unequal the PLM gets TP only about 10% faster. So you're left with Hagun doing 5.6% more on the DoT side, but Tomoe getting 10% more WS. So, if DoT were even, Tomoe's WS would have to be at least 90% of a YGK from Hagun to match up pound for pound. Since the DoT is uneven, Tomoe Penta Thrust needs to be over 90% of Hagun's YGK to make up for the 5.6% deficit in DoT. Translate this to real numbers. If Hagun can do a Gekko of 1200 let's say, then Tomoe's Penta Thrust must be greater than 1080 in order for the 10% more WS to make up for the deficit.
To summarize, you'd have to be getting Tomoe Penta Thrusts nearly as powerful (again on non-piecing weak mobs) as Hagun's YGK in order to break even on damage. You'd have to get Penta Thrusts equal to Hagun's YGK in order to beat GKT with your PLM. Your straight PLM melee DoT will not exceed your GKT DoT. Not to mention full Usukane to get nice accuracy/Store TP/haste to compensate for the PLM is a difficult road. Now, for piecing weak mobs, like Greater Colibri, it's hands down the PLM but we knew that all along. By how much? 18% melee DoT. --Gregedor 03:18, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou for your quick response Gregedor. I'm going to dig through some old parse results (Which will take a while as there is many without any details of which is what). Just using FFXI calc to confirm that weapon skill exceeding 200+ is .9 per skill. It would be 37 accuracy difference between 256/297 (Prefer Ancient Torque over Justice/Love Torque (I think I'm an accuracy whore D: )).

We agree on Polearm needing a serious amount of attention to become worthwhile, but I don't completely agree with the equipment suggested for Polearm:

Main: Tomoe

Sub: Pole Grip

Ammo: Black Tathlum

Head: Ace's Helm/Walahra Turban ~ WS Champions Galea (STR+4/WSACC+10/WSDMG+2%)

Neck Ancient Torque/Love Torque ~ WS Shadow Gorget

Ear1: Brutal Earring

Ear2: Aesir/Fowling Earring

Body: Usukane Hachimaki

Hands: Dusk Gloves or +1 if you're lucky to have ~ WS B/O Kote.

Rings: Rajas/Toreador ~ WS Could use STR ring if acc permits it.

Back: Cuchulain Mantle ~ WS Foragers

Waist: Swift/Velocious ~ WS Virtuoso

Legs: Byakko's Haidate ~ WS Same or Shura +1

Feet: Usukane Sune-ate ~ WS Same

Using FFXIcalc and using Fowling/Swift as I don't own the alternatives yet:

Lv82/337eva:

400.6acc (92.8%) during TP, 410.6 during WS. Using Hasso but not food. 18% Haste instead of the 17% suggested with full Usukane set, 19/20% if you use Walahra Turban & own Dusk +1, but I decided to use Ace's instead (393acc with Walahra). More haste the better of course, and this set is not for the faint hearted either but I'm a serious Polearm nut.

Here's a link to a parse Vegetto showed a while back on Dynamis Lord using pretty much the above. http://i31.tinypic.com/1z5nk44.jpg

Mokyo: Kraken DRK~

Clave: Amano SAM~

Veg: Tomoe SAM~

10 other SAM~

Other stuff

Thankyou for your time and I'm sorry if I misread something somewhere, I'm reading/writing with a serious migraine. I just wanna spread the Polearm love around.

Thanks. Dirtyfinger

Ninja Edit: Could you add perhaps the king of polearm: Leviathan's Couse if it's possible. thanks.

Gregedor: Well but if the sky's the limit on gear (such as Ace's Helm, Ancient Torque, Black Tathlum), could I not also give this gear to the GKT wielder? That's the big problem here is that you have access to the same gear on both. For the sake of argument though, if I give my PLM user a great set of gear as above, and keep my Hagun user with the same set as before, Hagun still maintains a 3.3% advantage in melee DoT. So my point is, yes, I can make my PLM beat many many GKT user's GKT, but for the same set of gear I can make my own GKT far better than my PLM.
I've been going over the parse though... your Relic SAM did 7 more hits than the PLM SAM in melee, but had over 1000 less damage done. To complicate that Amano has higher base damage (88) than Tomoe (86). So knowing nothing else about these two SAM, I would have to conclude that the Relic SAM has an absolutely terrible setup. If you can dig up a merit party where there is a larger sample of hits to mitigate any randomness in a small sample set, that would be really helpful to see. --Gregedor 04:12, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

New SAM RNG earrings

For SAM/RNG, I think some new earrings are gonna be the best here: Altdorf's Earring and Wilhelm's Earring. Obviously, for barrage and WS.

Also, where do you think the Enkidu's Leggings piece fits into the SAM/RNG build? I'm thinking it would be a pretty good barrage swap in if you aren't going for the Store TP on the Usukane. But what about sidewinder? It has the same AGI as the askar feet, but you have 4 ranged attack instead of the 3 STR. Which one do you think would win out damage wise? Or is the difference close enough to perhaps choose enkidu's simply for the lack of enmity + and subtle blow?

--Polive 07:04, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Gregedor: Yep, that pair is definitely nice.
I think Enkidu's is better on Barrage, but something that has STR & AGI like Askar is better for Sidewinder.

Shura Togi for SAM?

What do you think about a Shura Togi (DEF40, HP-50, ACC+10, ATT+20) for a TP build body for SAM75?

It appears that the conventional wisdom is that this piece is not suitable. In fact, some postings almost take the question as a personal affront. One poster said that he would be violently ill over his keyboard the next time that he saw a SAM wearing this, and another said that anyone who even asked the question was a moron ...

Let me share my (foolish?) thinking ... A Hauby is DEF45, STR+5, DEX+5, AGI-5, ACC+10, ATT+10, EVA-20. Depending on what you believe the conversion rates of STR to ATT and DEX to ACC for a SAM75, this translates to roughly ATT13 and ACC13.

I am a Mithra, so I have less trouble with DEX/AGI than other races would (as a SAM). But I do need ATT more than average. It seems to me that ATT20/ACC10 is more valuable to me than ATT13/ACC13.

Obviously, I would swap in something with pure STR (Kirin's?) for WS to maximize the STR modifier. But I would do that regardless of whether the TP body is the Shura or the Hauby, so the WS impact is not a factor.

Thoughts? -- Kmera

Gregedor: If you are comparing normal Hauby to Shura, then either is good. Personally I dislike the -50 HP and lower defense of the Shura, not to mention higher cost and the fact that you might have had Hauby for 16 levels already. However, if you have other jobs like NIN or MNK that can use the Shura, it is probably the better option for you since you get dual use. Now, if you are comparing Hauby+1 which is STR+6 DEX+6 ACC+12 ATK+12, then you have ACC/ATK+16. 16 to each is better than ACC+10/ATK+20 imho. --Gregedor 16:11, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Samurai and Reverse Flourish.

Your Calculations for reverse flourish are incorrect, as when you use DNC as a sub, you only get *one* finishing move, not the usual 2 for Dancer as a Main Job.

This means that after using 3 steps you'd be spending 30 tp to get 33 back not 60.

This means as far as /dnc and reverse flourish is concerned, it is not good for TP gain, but for breaking even when using steps to enfeeble.

Gregedor: You're right, I've been doing DNC main for the last several weeks and forgot the change in subjob useage. --Gregedor 02:16, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Update your feet gears

i hope you have the perle feet on, +5str> str+3, att+5 on rutters for ws's, i'm sure you have bcus i know how much you dislike the rutters that you've had for like 6 years lol...also, and i know this defies conventional thinking, but I repped both my haub+1 and kirins osode for the perle body, it's neck n neck with osode for ws with 8 str 8 att (considering 1 STR is worth 4-5~ att on ws), plus you get the crit+2%, and for tp, the attack is similar, i just lose a small amount of accuracy, which is an ok trade off for me considering 1. im still above acc cap on most mobs, and 2. since i tank just about everything i fight, the +16 def and +20 eva from the haub is an amazing boon...plus i get a free inventory slot XD -JavelinX 13:30, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Gregedor: I've not yet ventured into Abyssea, June-July so far have been super busy IRL. I do dislike using the same gear for the past 6 years and finding it still the best, or near the best. However, Perle feet are only a marginal improvement, though they are still an improvement. Perle body I agree is essentially an equivalent on stats with 2% extra crit. Perle hands are a decent alternative for melee gear to Dusk Gloves or Hachiryu Kote. I would not use the full Perle set over Usukane Set though. While they give similar STR/ATK/Haste, the Usukane set is near double the accuracy plus gives the needed Store TP for 437 and 480 delay weapons to hit a 6 or 5 hit build respectively. --Gregedor 02:27, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
Gregedor: I'm going to add that as of right now Perle gear is cheap on my server (30k-50k each piece) so even if it's only slightly better on any given piece, it's probably worth it.

agreed on the feet and body, the hands idk, nq dusk gloves are down to like 20k on my server, although I use hachiman kote for the store tp since i dont like to waste gil on carbonara all the time, and i dont have usu feet/body yet (work in progress, stingy drops). Perle is a great set for those without byakkos, fuma sune-ate, walahra turban (or the ability/gil/ w/e to get them) although I noticed a few sam's that used to have a good haste setup started using full perle...which of course is wrong...anyway, I mainly came on to update, finished stage 4 GK, like 55/70 for stage5^^ JavelinX 00:26, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
a few new things as of last update, for the lvl 85 sam, unkai kabuto+1/2 is the new tp head of choice, end of story, same with unkai haidate+1/2, and unkai feet+1/2 for ws (and legs+2 for ws if u dont have hachiryu...and even then they're probably neck n neck), 437/450 delay weapons can now feasibly(without losing all your haste) hit a 5 hit tp build with usu feet, af3 head/legs, usu body and few other pieces and/or food. other than that, happy hunting on those unkai seals, and yay for me lol

long time no see lol, nice additions to the guide, just thought I might add a bit down at the bottom of the talk section as far as new gears go and some of the premium setups for masamune and amano.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

grip is kind of a choice here and preference should b based on gear, but really either pole grip or sword strap if ur tp build/regain can support it, also rose strap if u absolutely need the tp, but there are other stp options that are better in my opinion.

ranged weapon/ammo: I personally use the killer shortbow 100% of the time because there is almost never a situation where I'm not tanking at some point, and it will literally save your life some times, the same can't really b said about black tathlum or thew bomblet. Black tathlum the choice for when u need acc, thew the choice for pure dmg (and you CAN change our ranged ammo slots without losing tp, it just has to be in a macro.

tphead:unkai kabuto+2, wshead:varangian helm(+2 str and only -1 att vs twilight, -20acc doesnt matter on 2hnd ws really)///tpneck:unkai nodawa, wsneck: light gorget(other elements are also options for masamune/amano of course)

ears: brutal earring of course, and bushinomimi if you dont have another earring from Divine Might, these are both used on tp AND ws when /war, /nin, /dnc etc, /drg use wyverns earring if you like, but with top of the line gear +5% haste is 4% over the top, so some gear swapping is necessary to get better returns.

tpBody: unkai domaru+2 (sad face at storing my usu haramaki), wsbody: twilight mail(or byrnie+1 for those that have not been lucky with drops, or got a good augment on it lol)

tphands: dusk+1 is still the premium, but since crafters wont adjust prices with material supply like they should ace's muffler's is the next best choice to try to reach haste cap

rings: rajas duh, 2nd ring is up for some debate i suppose, i prefer hoard ring atm, and here's the reason the 4 stp you could get from rose strap replaces 2%DA, the 4 stp and minor negative stats(considering its only a tp build ring str/dex don't matter as much) replaces w/e acc+/att+/str/dex+ you were using before, so the difference is really an equation/equivalency is 2% DA >/=/< str+10/dex+4/att+3 (using strigoi ring as the example as its basically the premium str/att ring, with a +6 str that makes +10 vs the hoard ring, etc), and the answer to this question is?

2% DA on tp swings will always be greater than any other stat with the exceptions: haste/delay reduction and triple attack.

tp/wsback: now this comes from some1 who has tested out all 3 of the premium options, had cerb+1 before, still have unkai back(in storage), and currently use atheling mantle, cerb was nice, and is nice for +enm if u have trouble holding hate, which masamune/amano sams shouldn't really, unkai is nice for those that have issue hitting acc cap (which def isnt an issue for amano90 sams lol), so atheling is the clear choice i think, see above statement in rings regarding DA vs other stats lol.

tpwaist: bullwhip belt, i know -75 hp sucks, but sams basically have to suck it up since we dont nice things like BB or twilight belt, goading is a nice replacement if u need the stp, but still leaves u 2% haste further from haste cap. wswaist: light belt, or whichever element you prefer for fudo/kaiten

tplegs: unkai haidate+2, some have said byakkos or other haste options, but that leaves u 7 more stp from your 5 hit build AND unkai+2's give MORE haste with hasso up. WSlegs: hachiryu haidate are still the king of the ring, with alternates being usukane hizayoroi or unkai haidate, unkai are nice for keeping stp in the ws build, but will give you lower ws numbers in the long run vs. either hachiryu or usu pants.

tp feet: ace's sabatons, if you have all the other top tier stp gear, then you can forgo the 2 stp difference from usu feet for the 1 more haste on ace's, which with all the other gear listed here puts sam at 24% haste and a 5 hit build with a 437 delay weapon(amano/masamune) with the regain that you should have while in abyssea, which used to be accomplished only through the use of /drg and wyvern earring

food, att+: red curry, meat mithkabobs if ur on a budget, carbonara while tanking if u need the hp, so u have hp+ and still get some attack out of it

atma's: Voracious Violet is a 100% atma for me, and should b for most sams, Razed Ruins is on most of the time for me if I'm tanking, Harvester is on most of the time if I'm tanking, sometimes replaced with Gnarled horn, but rarely

if I'm not tanking but just there to help with damage and red !! procs, I'll swap out harvester for Sundering slash just for more regain while idle since it's slower to get tp even on nq mobs with club/staff/dagger/sword, even if your skill is capped, 5 tp per tic with VV makes sundering slash a must for red proc jobs, and since sam can use 9/13 red procs as /war we're just as or more valuable than a WAR, who can also hit 9/13, but has much slower tp gain

Apoc atma also replaces Razed ruins when I'm just hitting red's as I usually die more since the whm is concentrating on the tank, and plainly mnk has 1k more hp than we do most of the time, so a lot of the moves that nm's use that dont kill the tank, do kill the sam lol.

I've been toying with some other atmas here and there: atma of the griffons claw, gives a significant ws dmg boost, so it may be more worthwhile that harvester, but definitely wouldnt replace RR or VV for raw dmg output.

Also I think there is a bug with atma of the burning effigy that causes the fire ws dmg boost to effect other element ws's as well: here's the theory, the "fire ws dmg boost" is based on your weaponskills alignment, so fudo and kaiten, which both have light alignment(which includes fire) see a damage increase, this is juts a theory and needs considerably more testing, but with normal atmas on /war with food and no berserk on, on dolls in altepa, my kaitens were hitting from 2.4k-4.9k, which is close too 1k over the normal ranges which are 1.5k-4k~, so needs testing that involves no food, a sub job other than war and no other atmas on except burning effigy, and all DA equipment taken off, /thf if I'm feeling really anal about the testing...I'll get back to you on that when i get some time greg.

I realize there are other options out there for sams, but general rule for sam has kind of always been 1. reach you x/hit build with stp, 2. cap haste, 3. stack other stats where you can. And sam has really come a long way with all the gear changes, 24% haste with 5~ hits (a little under 5 hit build, but regain in abyssea makes up for 1-3 tp shortage in the end) and -3% delay if you so chose (which btw parses higher than pole grip as long as you have the stp to keep 5 hits). some people think haste before stp, which is understandable, but the difference is huge, you reach 100%~ tp considerably(math has been done, see main page for this guide) faster with a 5 hit build vs a 6 hit build, so 1 or 2% haste isn't even going to compare there.

Last of all, I <3 SAM, it is my MAIN job and i enjoy out dd'ing empyrean weapons with my hard earned Amanomurakumo (90) :) JavelinX 12:59, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

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missing GK in list

Hiradennotachi +2 is a very good option if Masamune_(90) isn't a possiblity...I myself have used for some very impressive Fudo damage.