The article boldly stated, "and has a direct impact on a character's Magic Defense." That's what I was referring to and, have since then, corrected.
The discussion on resist rate is an interesting one, though. My BLM resists just as much as my WHM from what I checked through a parser. These tests were on base MND and INT from Too Weak mobs of the same level. Take from it what you will, but Mgc.Def. is definitely not affected by MND.
Too weak mobs aren't a good test for resist rates, because they mostly don't have the magic attack to overcome anyone's magic defense, except with pure luck. I'd really like to take a test (which I know has already been done) and take three mages, with two having equal Mind and Intelligence (and other resist considerations); Nuke each of them, to make sure the resist rates are the same from the start, then have one of them boost their Mind, and see which resists more then. My fiance has done this before, with two WHMs, and the WHM with the boosted MND resisted Silence significantly more than the other one. --Chrisjander 17:19, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
"because they mostly don't have the magic attack to overcome anyone's magic defense". I think you are mistaken on the effects of Magic Attack Bonus and Magic Defense Bonus, Chrisjander. It does not work like physical hits, and MAB vs MDB have no effect on resistance rates. The page as it is is erroneous.
While the claim that MND affects Magic Resistance, whether to White Magic only or to all spells is hard to prove either way, it is easily proven that MND does not affect Magic Defense.
Accordingly, I edited it to reflect:
1) The uncertainty of the impact of MND on Magic Resistance.
FFXIclopedia is supposed to be neutral: in a case where proof cannot be provided either way, the article shouldn't take a stance.
Tests might have been done either way, but none has been provided.
2) The absolute certainty that it does not impact Magic Defense.--AshmadaLakshmi 11:28, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
Burn lowers the INT of your opponent. Your opponent takes more Magical damage after this. Shock lowers the MND of your opponent. Your opponent doesn't take more Magical damage after this. Enough said. 30 September 2006
Enough said about what? You didn't address the main point of this discussion. We're not saying MND effects the damage taken, we're saying it affects the rate of resists. --Chrisjander 15:45, 30 September 2006 (EDT)
For Klades, While casting MND down on a mob may not make your Black Magic Spells do any more damage than they did before, having ++ MND on yourself will result in you resisting more spells. I rarely ever get Silenced, Paralyzed, Poisoned or Slept. I attribute this to my additional Mind. Back in the day, I tested this quite thoroughly and found that it was in fact the addition Mind that did this. Mind is good for resisting spells and for increasing the potency of other cure spells. Please stop changing this. I think you are misunderstanding what these pages relate to. --Nynaeve 07:39, 26 June 2006 (PDT)
If you're going to claim that a stat does something that is non-obvious, like a random occurance such as resist rates, you need to have some actual evidence other than "well I tested it a lot". How much is a lot? Did you parse your resist rates on the same character and job combination against the same mobs with varying amounts of MND and non-varying quantities of other stats? How big was the sample? Did you do it all on the same elemental day and weather conditions? How do you define "rarely"? How often were you actually targeted by those debuffs? From IT mobs, or EM? TW? The fact of the matter is that people automatically assumed that MND impacted magic defense because there's a precedence set by other games that would support that opinion, despite that SE never, to my knowledge, said that MND affected resists. Because of this, insufficient testing has been done -- at least by the NA community, I'm not sure about the JPs -- as to what MND actually does outside of making white magic stronger.
And to top it all off, Magic Defense, which is what the article says MND affects, is not even a normal stat. Magic Defense Bonus and Magic Attack Bonus simply alter a multiplier in the magic damage formula directly; There isn't a stat that affects either of them. There's been sufficient research into the subject in various forums if you'd care to look for it, if you don't believe me. --Klades 20:54, 2 July 2006 (PDT)
You are the one who changed something from what it was before, I tested it two years ago and came out with that conclusion. I particularily don't feel the need to duplicate an experiment that took alot of time since I already know the experiment proved what is said and what has been written. If someone else wants to that is fine. But don't look to me to educate some noob who doesn't know and who hasn't taken the time to test it out himself. If you want to make accusations or truths you should know or have done a test yourself. But you haven't so you have no room to talk. I no longer have the test information since my old LS website was deleted taking my test with it but feel free to test it again if you want to call what is a truth and what is generally accepted now because people have tested it out, false because you haven't seen evidence to it that is fine - conduct your own experiment and prove all of us wrong. I dare you, I would love to see you waste your time. --Nynaeve 09:57, 3 July 2006 (PDT)
Neither of you can produce evidence either way.
Based on my personal experience I don't believe MND does anything other than improve casting of MND-based spells. I think Klades is right to say this is just something people are assuming based on experience in other games. In all the time I've played this game I've seen nothing (in-game or out) to offer any support to the various claims made about MND.
Can I prove it? No. Can anyone prove it either way? No.
Yes you can, there have been tests with and without MND gear (I'm talking like +30 or more in gear) and they have clearly showed that all other things being equal, the person with all the MND gear resists more spells. --Chrisjander 11:32, 21 July 2006 (EDT)
If everyone simply read what I was saying - ++MND increases the chance that not BLM spells, but WHM spells such as Silence, Paralyze, et al get resisted more. This has been tested profusely and come up showing it as such. It can be proven, it has been proven and therefor is not simple or thoughtless assumptions. --Nynaeve 18:40, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
I think this would be less controversial with a bit of rewording. Talking about "magic defense" sounds like you're referring to Magic Defense Bonus, whereas you're actually talking about Magic Resistance. Perhaps just change the word "defense" to "resistance", with a link to that page? --Valyana 21:50, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
while this subject hasn't really been touched on for a while i would like to add my 2 gil . Magical Attributes like MND , INT , Magic Atk and Magic Def arent the sole determining factor in Damage or resistance . Your Blizzard 3 does the Damage it does because of your INT , Elemental Magic Skill and Magic Atk Versus your opponents like Stats . I am sure most Mages will easily see the effects of this . Let me Expand on this Point . Everyone has fought Crabs . Skilling up , EXPing in Kuftal , what ever . We have all fought them in one way or another . Crabs , as we all know , are PLDs . PLDs have no Enfeebling Skill , Elemental Skill , or Dark Magic Skill . But PLDs do have INT and MND . There for when using Magic on them all they have to resist you is thier base Attributes of INT and MND . with capped skill Lvs of the previously mentioned non-PLD magic Skills , most crabs cant and wont resist spells such as Dispel , Aspir , Paralyze , and Slow . The reason isn't because youre INT or MND is higher , its because the amount of MND or INT they have cant compensate for the lack of Magic Skill . I am a Tarutaru . As RDM74/BLM37 in Enfeebling Gear , i have 76+24 or +21 INT , Enfeebling Magic Skill of 286 (Capped at 74 w/ Spider Torque and AF ) and MND 60+80 . Imps in Caedarva Mire will occasionally Resist Dispel , and with out a Matching Elemental Staff , Paralyze and Silence are hard to stick . Imps are BLM or RDM , so they have Skill and Stats causing higher rate of resists . So Long story short , Resistance is based more on whats being Cast on who , and not just on your MND or INT .--MIKUMARU 16:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I would attribute Imps resisting dispel to them being dark based, not so much the jobs they are. --Black MageUser:Nonponcho|Nonponcho]]
Hello, I would like to alleviate the above confusion and explain logically from an objective point-of-view my theory on the whole magic system.
- The Magical System works like this:
- INT: Affects Accuracy, Attack, Defense, and Resistance to Black Magic.
- MND: Affects Accuracy, Attack, Defense, and Resistance to White Magic.
Lets compare the Magic System to the Physical System to understand my basis for this theory.
- The Physical System works like this:
- DEX: Affects Accuracy.
- STR: Affects Attack.
- VIT: Affects Defense.
- AGI: Affects Evasion(Physical equivalent of Resistance)
Because their is four governing stats it is easy to break down what affects what. However with Magic there is only 2 stats, INT and MND. This creates confusion, however, it shouldn't for this specific reason: There are only 2 types of magic:
- Black Magic
- White Magic
It would be reasonable as well as logical for each stat to only boost their respective class of magic, hence INT affecting Black Magic and MND affecting White Magic. Please feel free to test this theory if you have the ability to, however please do not tell me I am flat out wrong for no reason. As to date there is no solid information that would disprove my claim and as I have clearly said this is THEORY. I did feel making this post was necessary to help people understand more about this talk page since the above people kept talking about two different things as if they were the same(Example: Magic Defense & Magic Resistance). Thanks for taking the time to read this, I hope it helped you in some way, Kupo! Tristaenkun 10:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
- In addition I would like to say that while INT and MND may affect Magical Accuracy, Attack, Defense, & Resistance. I can not say whether or not Magic Skill effects any of these. (I would assume it does for the purpose of Magical Accuracy and Magical Attack for aligned spells(Example:Stone Magical Accuracy and Magical Attack affected by Elemental Magic skill.)) Tristaenkun 10:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
MND vs VIT vs Healing Skill
"Mind has the biggest increase in cure potency compared to Vitality and Healing Magic (1MND = 3VIT = 5Healing Magic)"
This is incorrect. I did some tests and what I found out is that Healing Magic is greater than MND in terms of cure potency for a WHM, that is until you get AF3 in which the extra 10% stoneskin effect from Afflatus Solace is far more better than an extra 100 or so HP you heal from cure 6 (on a tank with 3k HP the stoneskin will absorb around 1000 damage.) MND and VIT seem to give the same amount as each other to begin with, but as their values increase the amount of cure potency from VIT depreciates.
- It was correct at the time. The formula has since been changed in an update to favor Healing Magic skill. The new formulas have been figured out. It seems the Cura and Curaga line of spells remained unchanged (I wouldn't know, I no longer play.) http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17433-Cure-Formula-Changes Also, please sign your contributions on the talk page (with four ~'s). --Nyaanyaa 00:35, July 16, 2012 (UTC)