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=Fish Size Keeping=
 
=Fish Size Keeping=
 
===Shortest===
 
===Shortest===
[[File:Hakuryu366lm.jpg]]
+
[[File:Hakuryu314lm.jpg]]
 
===Longest===
 
===Longest===
 
[[File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png]]
 
[[File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png]]
 
===Lightest===
 
===Lightest===
[[File:Hakuryu1836pz.jpg]]
+
[[File:Hakuryu1531pz.jpg]]
 
===Heaviest===
 
===Heaviest===
 
[[File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png]]
 
[[File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png]]

Revision as of 09:38, 23 January 2011

Fish Size Keeping

Shortest

Hakuryu314lm

Longest

File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png

Lightest

Hakuryu1531pz

Heaviest

File:Hakuryu842lm4120pz.png

Discussion

I'm not sure if the Notes in the article are appropriate:

"# Unlike other normal fish/items in this zone, the time you have to reel in the Hakuryu is 40 seconds, that's 10 seconds longer than the standard 30 seconds given to reel in your catch.

  1. It is highly recommended to fish Hakuryu with the new Noddy Ring and Puffin Ring together.
  2. The reason Sinking Minnows's break rate is so much higher is because on average larger/heavier fish bite it compared to a Minnow. So the extra weight contributes to the higher snap rate."

I was skeptical of the 40 second note, but my own testing does seem to be consistent with the note. I didn't lose the catch until 39 seconds. I tested on a monster as well, which was released at 32 seconds. Further testing would need to be done to see whether it's related to a random interval between 30 and 40 seconds or if it's related to the Ebisu rod. I lost a number of catches testing Hakuryu with a Lu Shang's and I remember the "You're don't know how much longer you can keep this one on the line..." message popping up at around 25 seconds, but I wasn't testing the time on the line so that could be inaccurate.

The second note is a given for any large fish. Noddy ring is ideal everywhere, and Puffin ring makes sense for any large fish. I'm leaving it simply because knowledge of the rings isn't yet widespread.

The third note I can't even make sense of. Is it claiming that Sinking Minnow's pull in larger Hakuryu, or that Black Sole biting on the lure somehow contribute to more breaks? Given that there's a extremely small sample pool to extrapolate data from, I'm removing that note until someone can verify that with a statistically significant data pool for both lures. I also sincerely doubt that anyone has verified that one lure pulls in heavier fish than the other; The line snap data should be enough in and of itself. --Finbar 20:52, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

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Black Sole cant snap a Sinking Minnow with a Lu Shang's Fishing Rod or an Ebisu Fishing Rod. There is no wearing down of lures in this game either, so saying that Black Sole contributes to more breaks makes no sense. I've even gone as far as reeling in 9 Hakuryu's before my Sinking Minnow line snapped, and everyone who goes out and tries this will experience line snaps back to back. This can mean only two things: Luck/random variable or that heavy fish contribute to snapping lines which is a fact.

The time interval was 39 seconds and I'll be making the correction on the front page. It is always 39 seconds with an Ebisu, and I'll make note that was with an Ebisu not a Lu Shang as I don't own one anymore to test with. And FYI: "You don't know how much longer you can keep this one on the line..." when you see this message you have exactly 5 seconds left before it gets away.

About your confusion on the difference between a Minnow and Sinking Minnow. The Minnow lure floats closer to the top of the surface while the Sinking Minnow, obviously, sinks down and goes deeper. There is meaning for this and Hakuryu proves it after enough time comparing the two like I have. I'm not saying my testing is complete, it is far from being anywhere close to being called reliable data. I'm only one fisher and it will take some time not to mention that this isn't a user-friendly format for others to post their data along with mine.

But about the two lures. The Minnow lure always reels in on average lighter and smaller fish. While the Sinking Minnow on average reels in the heavier and longer fish. Proof of this is simple, The record smallest and lightest fish belongs to the Minnow lure and the heaviest and largest fish belongs to the Sinking Minnow. This might not mean much to someone just looking at the data but experience using the lures as much as I have has shown me it to be true.

I believe the note should be made on the front page except it will only be one sentence and I'll be providing a link for discussion. You cant delete a note unless proven wrong and that requires more testing, and documenting of data than what I have provided myself proving my statement is wrong which none exists that I know of since this kind of documentation of a fish isn't normally done.

And about the pictures in the discussion keep the categories separated please because the largest fish wont always be the heaviest as well. Thanks! Kalila 21:37, January 12, 2011 (UTC)

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There was no confusion on my end, except in my interpretation of what was written. I'm aware of the difference between a Minnow and Sinking Minnow in the real world, but you can't assume that such a difference is meaningful when comparing data sizes between a fish that can be caught with both lures. Speculation and conjecture should be kept to the talk page, pure and simple. It very well could be true - I don't deny that - but until statistically relevant data is gathered, it doesn't belong in the main article. Again, as I said before, the snap data should speak for itself. As such, I'm not sure why making note of the fact that Sinking Minnow shows a (statistically irrelevant) higher break rate is necessary, when the percentage notes next to the lures clearly already shows that.

Showing what lure the records came from is not proof of anything except that the fish happened to be caught with those lures. Again, statistical significant data needs to be made before asserting anything as fact. Very few fish can be caught with both the Minnow and Sinking Minnow, and no parsers to date log the size of the fish to my knowledge, so I'm pretty sure no such data to support your theory exists. Furthermore, I don't know of data that has yet correlated fish size in general to line breaks. Yes, it would be true in real life (as well as how much the fish fights), but this is not real life. As an example, Cave Cherax can break the line of an Ebisu, and it has a maximum known weight of 1134[Pz]. Some fish could simply be programmed to have a given break rate, regardless of lures. We could just as easily attribute moon phases or fishing spots to line breaks too. We need the data to support the theory.

The burden of proof is implicit upon the person making the claim. Please leave it to the talk page until you've fulfilled that burden.

Also, the heaviest and longest fish can be different fish, but "Longest and Heaviest" does imply that the fish is both the longest AND the heaviest, does it not? It doesn't matter to me though; If you insist. --Finbar 05:08, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

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"I'm aware of the difference between a Minnow and Sinking Minnow in the real world, but you can't assume that such a difference is meaningful when comparing data sizes between a fish that can be caught with both lures."

It was a theory I was going off of which was that the weight and length of the fish can very depending on the two lures. This wasn't about the difference between sinking minnow and minnow. Sure they both have minnow in the name but it was about comparing two lures to see if the weight and length can vary depending on the lure you use. Me saying that sinking minnow lure sinks down resulting in larger fish and minnow floats closer to the top simply means that the lures operate differently in a programmable sense. I was just giving a real life example of how they would act differently in real life, and that they could possibly codded differently resulting in different results.

This is turning out to be false, and that what lure you use has no noticeable relation to the weight and length of the fish you fish up. If there is any truth to it it isn't significant enough for me to see now after I have more data to look at. Before when I said it the numbers were pointing to that but now its evening out and just doesn't really hold up anymore. I do not record every length and weight of every fish I manage to reel in, if I were to I would compare the data that way and see if there is any value to my previous theory but right now I do not have that data so my previous theory is just that, a theory. I did not post it on the front page and did keep it within the talk page.

As for the theory about the weight of the fish contributing to the line snap rate, I still hold my ground on that. I'm not saying the weight of that fish vs other fish. I understand a lighter fish of a different fish can snap the line. What I was trying to get across was that my theory is that the heavier end of that specific fish has a higher tendency of snapping the line vs the lighter end of that specific fish. My theory is impossible to prove since you never know what the stats of that fish that snapped your line was.

Am I saying a lighter Hakuryu cant snap a line? No, I'm sure it can but there is no way for me to know what it was beyond how aggressive the fish was and how fast its health went down and so on. I feel that the fish who have more health and fight more tend to have a heavier weight and longer length and that those types of fish are the ones that stick in my mind that end up snapping my line, the more aggressive ones of the family.

Is it speculation? Sure, but I did not post anything on the front page that wasn't speculation except that sinking minnow lure snaps more often than minnow lure, and the only reason I posted that information was because I have recorded data supporting my claim. I removed it off the front page since its obviously different and anyone who actually reads the numbers see that.

I am not trying to claim anything I say is fact, my speculation and theories have always gone here in the talk page. Did i use the word fact? Yea, I was tired I apologize. I simply have posted my data to compare and present. My data isn't written in stone and that makes it the law. It simply allows others to see the difference between my experiences and it does provide very important information.

For instance the difference between using the rings and not using the rings. I need more data from Hakuryu's and other fish before it can even be considered possibly true. My theory is that when you use both rings together you increase the bite rate of all the large fish together by 5% and its divided among all the possible choices. For example with Minnow lure that would be two fish so each fish get a equal 2.5% boost in bite rate.

Does me saying this make it a fact? Of course not. It's simply my theory and only that, a theory. There can be so many factors to change the rings outcome. A theory doesn't have to turn out to be true, and when trying to record data and examine your results you cant help but to generate ideas and theories along the way and they get disproved along the way.

I set out to create this page since it was not created after some time and enjoy documenting my results and to have others join in. I am not trying to give false information, but to do the exact opposite. I want information to be out there, raw data that others can see that's, at least in my opinion, something to consider. This is much more than seeing two lures that you can use to catch this fish. It's comparable data not only between the two lures but the results of the new rings and what exactly they do to help us catch more fish. I only wish to provide data and bring about ideas about the hobby I love. Kalila 10:16, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

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