Talk: Drain Samba

Sambas are buffs

Sambas are a buff on the dancer, its single target self only. The buff causes whatever you hit to receive the daze effect, and pt members who attack dazed stuff get endrain in this case. The proper macro syntax is /ja "Drain Samba" <me>. I edited it as such, but it seems to get auto-reverted, we'll see what happens I guess. Vyvian 18:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not reverted, it says <me>. It's possible you may need to clear out your cache by putting "?action=purge" at the end of the url. This will clear your browser's cache for that page, and force it to load the current version. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 19:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I guess that was it, thanks for the help Vyvian 02:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Max Drain Potential

I can't say for sure, but from watching the damage of all party members, I see this as having a max drain potential of 50% of the damage dealt. I personally have hit for 28 and drained 14, I had a DRK friend who hit for 36 and drained 18. Its usually lower than that, especially as the monsters get stronger, but has anyone seen it go higher than 50% of your hit? Vyvian 02:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Stats as Factors?

I got curious about if Sambas (Tested with Drain Samba) are affected by stats. For this purpose, I used a 10 DNC/MNK using Cesti and collected data on a number of attacks. The following is a log of my findings

According to the data I collected, it seems like having a Chr Penalty actually shows in increase in overall amount of HP Drained with Drain Samba per hit. I'll be doing more testing over the coming days to verify my thoughts, and ask for other players to test this idea as well.

For food, I was using a Jack-O-Lantern (CHR -10).

I'd like to be certain if Sambas, and maybe other dances, are affected by stats outside of the Curing Waltz, and I think I may be correct in that thinking.

~Starlight~

Well we know Charisma affects waltz, so it's quite possible. Drain effect being black magic, perhaps INT? Your results above though really are inconclusive. Because you're using random sampling, you should do atleast 200 samples of each in order to provide a low margin of error.

~~Quessy~~

I'll be running more testing again later today, and upload my findings on a hyperlink for people to look at

~Starlight~

Potential with DRK?

I haven't found any DRK/DNCs, or DRKs who've partied with DNCs, to ask yet. Does this stack with Souleater (saps away 10-12% HP from a DRK per hit)? --Ivrai 01:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Stackable?

I have heard that different dancers can stack together different Drain Sambas, much like different bards can stack together all the tiers of Minuet or Minne; and when this works, you'll see two drain messages per attack. Is this true? Tahngarthor 18:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

No, only one additional effect can be taken advantage of at one time. If you have multiple dancers, I believe whoever hits last overwrites the current daze effect. Other party members with weapons that give additional effects will give this effect instead of draining. In the case of 100% additional effects (such as Boreas Cesti or Enspells), you will receive no drain effect at all. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 19:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Delay Cap

Experimenting with drain samba, I have found a cap to it. No matter how hard I or anyone else hits it, it never does more than a certain number. What I've found is this seems to be related to weapon delay. My findings with daggers and a MNK friend.
Dmg: 11 Delay 190 Dual wielded = 171 delay = 5 HP per hit max.
Dmg: 13 Delay 180 Dual weilded = 162 delay = 4 HP per hit max.
Dmg: 13 Delay 180 Not Dual wielded = 180 delay = 5 HP per hit max
Dmg: 35 Delay 224 Not Dual wielded = 224 delay = 6 HP per hit max
75 MNK with 396 delay = 198 per fist = 5 HP per hit max

My best estimate is
Delay <170 = 4 HP
Delay <200 = 5 HP
Delay <230 = 6 HP. These numbers need more tweaking though

~~Quessy~~

Discovered while soloing against some WHM goblins, that slow effect DOES count towards the variable. IE slow raises you delay, you get a higher drain cap. Slow took my daggers from 4 HP drain cap to 5.

~~Quessy~~

I played around with Drain Samba and some of my weapons today to help find the cap on this. Here are the numbers I got:
Delay 210: 6 HP cap (Rose Wand)
Delay 224: 6 HP cap (Buzzard Tuck)
Delay 264: 7 HP cap (Charm Wand +1)
Delay 366: 10 HP cap (Wind Staff, Dark Staff)
Delay 390: 11 HP cap (Gelong Staff)

It looked like your guess was spot on until I got to the Charm Wand +1 (which should have been 8 cap. 200~229 = 6, 230~259 = 7, 260~289 = 8). I tested that one for quite a while to make sure I would get an 8 if it was possible, but I never did get one. I tried a few formula of my own, but none of them worked with all our numbers. Finally, since yours was so close, I poked at it until it fit all our numbers. Instead of each tier being 30 delay, I took 200 Delay = 6 HP and got each tier being 33.33~ (200/6, 100/3). Thus floor(Delay*3/100) = Drain Samba cap.

Also, since you said Slow effect raised your cap, I thought I should try the reverse of that and see if Haste would lower the cap. I tried a few weapons again and found that having the Haste spell cast on me would bump Rose Wand and Wind Staff down 1 tier, to 5 and 9 respectively. Having Haste lower the cap keeps Drain Samba on par with Regen in HP restored per minute(baring misses/resists/etc), regardless of equipment (well, other than multi-hit weapons). For 3 seconds of delay (180 Delay) Drain Samba's cap is 5.4 HP. That's pretty close to Regen if that's what Square-Enix was intending. (Which might imply that Drain Samba 2 works out to 12 HP per 180 delay, and Drain Samba 3 works out to 20 HP per 180 delay?)

To sum up, unless someone else has numbers that contradict this (which wouldn't surprise me, since I haven't been able to test really high delay weapons yet), the formula would look something like:

Drain Samba HP cap = floor(mDelay*3/100)

Where mDelay stands for Modified Delay, meaning your 'delay' after you take into account everything that can make you attack quicker or slower (like dual wield, haste, slow, and that sort). The formula for it would be something like Delay*[1-(DualWield%)]*[1+slow%-haste%)]

Or in other words, after you account for haste/slow/dualwield/etc, you get 3 more HP cap every 100 delay.

Anyway, I've never edited a wiki article before, and I'm far from confident in this, so I'll leave it up to the more experienced wiki editors to decide if this is right and if it should be added to the article. (Not to mention this is all Quessy's work, I just poked at it a bit, so it's more his call than mine) --Theiry 13:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Quessy has posted his results on the Drain Samba II page for that dance, looks like 2 works out to be closer to mDelay*8/100, which gives it about 14 HP for every 180 delay, slightly better then Regen II? --Pigface 18:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this still warrants more testing, after looking at Vyvian's comments earlier on this talk page. The Delay*3/100 cap theory is stretched thin with Vyvian's reports of a drain for 14-18 (implying a weapon delay of 600+). Perhaps we should try with more damaging weapons? Maybe the "verification needed" tag should go back... --Malizia 02:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You are definitely right that the "verification needed" tag should stay for now. At least until someone can do a more extensive test. I wouldn't be surprised if that formula is wrong, or if it changes at high/low delay extremes. However if Vyvian's Drk friend was using a delay 528 scythe and had at least 13.7% slow, their mDelay would be over 600 and the drain cap would be 18. I'm not sure how potent monster slows are, but the slow spell would cover that if it's at least as potent when monsters cast it. (It's not exactly a safe assumption to think they had a slow effect on them, but that's not too absurd of a scenario to rule out the formula just yet)

Also, I'm pretty sure Vyvian was right about there being a "50% of damage dealt" cap as well. I tried testing the Wooden Katana but couldn't hit for 26 damage, and so I never saw a 13. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but I noticed a lot of drains for 50% of the damage I dealt, and none for above that. Same thing with other low damage weapons or weapons I didn't have enough skill in (even on weapons with low delay). --Theiry 07:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the equation is tiered, similar to how tp return is calculated based on delay, and when you exceed a certain amount of delay the equation grows larger. We were level 5-7 when I saw 18 hit drains from my friend on DRK (crit for 36), the only scythe available is Bronze Zaghnal, or its HQ. Haste and Slow aren't really a major factor at that level, we were fighting birds and lizards. But I can absolutely guarantee that there is a 50% drain cap, which also explains why you must do at least 2 damage to see the graphic, 1/2 of 1, you'd drain nothing. Hope this helps --Vyvian 02:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I do not know much about testing caps nor was I actually testing any caps for drain samba... but my lvl 10DNC/MNK using Legionnaire's Knuckles (delay +96) was giving me (on average) 4-5hp with a max of 7hp on the drains with dmg around 15ish. I guess that further testing is needed on the drain caps.

That still falls in with the current formula, base delay with Martial Arts 1 (MNK level 1) is 400, then +96. You divide that number by 2, each hand is calculated seperately, which gets you 248 delay per hand. 248 x 3 is 744, then divide by 100, is 7.44, which rounds to 7. Also, 7 hp is less than half of 15. --Vyvian 08:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Testing "Damage" dealt by Drain Samba

Test: DNC35 with Onion Knife vs Wild Rabbits (33 Maximum HP).

This table shows damage values dealt with my Onion Dagger without Samba, and the percent of the rabbit's HP remaining after said damage was dealt.

Damage dealt	Percent HP Remaining
22	33%
23	30%
24	27%
25	24%
27	18%

Normally, dealing 27 damage will bring a Wild Rabbit to 18% HP.

When samba is active, and HP are at full, dealing 27 damage (with 0 HP Drained) will bring a Wild Rabbit to 18% HP.

When samba is active, and HP are less than maximum, dealing 27 damage (with 4 HP drained) will bring a Wild Rabbit to 18% HP.

Conclusion: Drain Samba does not increase damage dealt. Damage healed by Drain Samba is merely just a percent of damage dealt, given to you for free. This could explain why creatures normally resistant to drain (e.g. bats) are not resistant to samba "drain", since nothing is actually drained. In effect, Drain Samba is just a healing effect, based on you hitting the mob. Think of it like Regen. It does not actually drain any HP from the monster (i.e. deal extra damage). --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 06:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Can someone do some more research into this? I do not have DNC levelled to try myself. My concern is that with Drain Samba active, even if it drains for 0 in the chat log, you likely would have gotten the 4 damage drained. On my blm for instance, when you cast drain with full life, it says drained for 0 in the log, but the health of the mob still drops. A better test would be to hit the bunny without samba up at all, and see if 27 damage with no drain effect still puts the rabbit to 18% hp. Yoteo

I should have been more specific. The above table shows damage values and subsequent remaining HP% of the mob without samba. The text below then describes two tests (which I repeated) that had samba active, one with full HP and one when I had a HP deficit. I will modify my above post so there's no table confusion. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 03:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Test:

Walking Sapling, HP extremely close to 100

(No Drain Samba)

Hit for 15, 15% health lost

Hit for 15, 16% health lost

Hit for 15, 15% health lost

Hit for 13, 13% health lost

Hit for 13, 13% health lost

(Drain Samba)

Hit for 12 + 3(drain), 12% health lost, drain had no apparent effect on HP (would have been 14-16% health lost if it had)

Hit for 14 + 4(drain), 14% health lost, drain had no apparent effect on HP (would have been 17-19% health lost if it had)

Hit for 15 (killed mob, no drain)

By this test, it is mathematically impossible for Drain Samba to be considered actual damage on the mob. -- Thanacus 08:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction/Poor Wording?

• The HP "drained" from the mob does not do any additional damage, it simply restores HP to the player (similar to Blood Weapon).
• The damage drained is additional to that of your attack. Therefore, if your final strike kills the mob before the effect can hit, it will not drain.

Is it additional or isn't it? I've not got DNC, so it may just be that I'm not understanding it properly, but those two statements seem contradictory to me.

TheMysteriousX 23:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I have placed a Vertification tag on the second line and made mention of the first line, so hopefully, whoever put it there will notice and re-phrase their point, justify it, or remove it. --Ctownwoody 16:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The effect is similar to Blaze Spikes, but instead of dealing damage, it deals cures instead. I agree SE's wording is rather poor and shouldn't say "drained" because it's been tested (shown above for example) that there really isn't any damage dealt to the mob. It's as if the Dancer has an Endaze effect on their melee hits, and the daze is like a 5 second duration reverse Blaze Spikes "buff" placed on the mob. That's really about the best I can explain it at the moment. Also, as far as being "additional" or not, I think it's SE's lazy way of saying "this effect took place because of the previous melee hit and we don't want to make a new standardized statement." or something --Solarhawk 09:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Noticed an interesting tidbit, while leveling RNG, bloody bolts would not proc while Drain Samba was active, but worked when drain daze was allowed to drop. Have a look and get back to me, I'd like to know if this was a fluke, or a glitch since added effect is supposed to take priority. ~Bhinasha

Duration

It seems for a long time, this article listed the duration of Drain Samba to be 2:00. It was recently changed to 1:30.

    19:38 <Jackel> Good Evening Gan, you have just a quick moment?
    19:38 <ganiman> sure
    19:39 <Jackel> I'm a frequent user of the site, I'm not much of a wiki editor, but I was hoping I could
              point out a mistake to you for someone to possibly correct? I know it sounds lazy and
              selfish, but Wiki editing isn't my thing ; ;
    19:39 <ganiman> ok?
    19:40 <Jackel> Drain Samba 1 has a listed duration of 1:30. By default w/o AF, the duration is 2:00 minutes.
    19:40 <Jackel> And 2:30 with AF.

So which is it? I don't have the job unlocked so I can't test this. --Ganiman 23:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

It is 2:00 for sure. I tested both with DNC Main and Sub. --Idlehand 23:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Meh. I will retract my statement. People are already convinced that it is not additional damage, and I can't be bothered to care to much to argue about it. Taomage

Easy way to solve this. Ballista testing, go! --Taeria Saethori 06:04, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Skilling Up?

I was using tigers in Jugner [s] today to skill up my club skill today. I found that while under the effect of Drain Samba, I was unable to get any skillups, but as soon as it wore, I would get them, maybe every 5-10 hits. Has anyone else, had a similar situation. There is a good chance this might be completely coincidentaly, but unless I see otherwise, I'd like to at least mention the possibility exists that Samba may interfere with skillups.

I'm fairly positive I've recieved skillups while using a Samba. I'll try to test it out later and I'll post my results. Tiffany Lynn 03:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I know for a fact that you can skillup with this on, I capped my Hand-to-Hand as PUP75/DNC37 and I have Drain Samba on constantly. - Hiachi 04:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

After testing on some Desert Beetles, not that they were giving me much to begin with, I eventually received a skillup with Aspir Samba activated. Hiachi is right. Tiffany Lynn 07:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

An odd little quirk.

The game seems to be unwilling to register back-and-forth drains. Tested durring Campaign against Shadowfang, Drain Samba seemed to negate his Dread Spikes. --Lordshadow 13:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Enblizzard

I was partying with a SCH/RDM as a 47DNC/NIN. The SCH used Enblizzard and it will completely override any Samba. I have tried with: Drain Samba, Drain Samba II, Haste Samba as well as Aspir Samba. Tiffany Lynn 03:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Another confirmation for Slow and Haste affecting Sambas

• Drain Samba amount drained is based on 2 factors, the time between attacks (not delay) and the amount of damage done

Haste, Dual Wield, and Martial Arts all reduce the time between attacks and thus reduce the amount drained. slow extends the time between attacks and allows for more to be drained. Note: Footwork is currently broken with Drain Samba only draining for that of a punch. When I was soloing as DNC12/MNK6, I drained an average of 5-6 health. When I was hit by a Sprout Smack for what it seems like 50% slow, I was now draining an average of 10 health per hit. Note that I was dealing the same amount of damage, about 20+ per hit. With 50% slow, I was draining average of 9-10. Without slow, I was draining 5-6. This was against easy prey mobs and I was dealing 20+ damage per hit.

• It was also noted in the article that Hundred Fists reduces Drain to nearly nothing due to the reduction in speed. I was using a +40 delay H2H weapon and with Martial Arts, that gave me 440.
  • Hundred Fist apparently works as 73% Haste(according to it's article), Hundred Fists isn't a "normal" delay reduction effect or else the TP gain from using Hundred Fist would be reduced. The haste from Hundred Fists is similar to Hasso and Haste Samba since those do not reduce the recast times of spells. So that may be another case of Haste/Slow affecting the drain amount of Drain Samba.

Petco 06:08, 1 February 2009 (UTC)