Talk:Charm

+CHarm application?

When is +Charm gear applied? Can the +Charm be swapped in after the charm to gain the added time, or is it calculated at the time of the charm? If it's at the time of the charm, then does the +Charm gear need to be left on, or can it be macroed out in favor of other gear. If it's not at the time of charm, then it would make more sense to macro in a lot of +CHR for landing the charm, then swap in +Charm for added duration.

Intuitively, I would think it's applied at the time of charm, and you could swap gear afterward, but I would like to have that clarified. --Moline 20:10, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

BST Charmable?

In my Dynamis - Beaucedine logs, after a Fanatic Dance I see

• No effect on CourierCarrie.
• <BST> is charmed.

and then the BST hitting another player. I also see the same thing with a DRG (wyvern isn't charmed, DRG is). I don't see any cases where it says "No effect on <Player>." That's with a jug pet, not a charmed pet, but that makes me doubt that a pet makes the BST immune to charm. --Valyana 21:37, 27 March 2006 (PST)

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I'd agree with the above statement. Although I have never been charmed in Dynamis (No mob has tried), I have been charmed a number of times while fighting Xolotl. Each time I am charmed, the pet I have is automatically released. My pet cannot be charmed, but I certainly can. --Daniel 04:48, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

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Another question then, what (if any) stats improve your resistance to being Charmed? Best I can tell would be Boosting up on MND... (pet food's restore pethp and lower MND..) <insert signature here with ~~~()

A good way to test this is to have a BLM or someone with /BLM use Shock on a mob you normally wouldn't try to charm (something Tough for example), and then see how your Charm rate is affected. Who knows, you might find a use for /BLM or /DRK (abs-MND is at like 32 or something). --Chrisjander 13:01, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Didn't SE say Charisma affects your resistance against Charm and bard songs? Or have I just gone insane? --Jopasopa 11:23, 25 January 2007 (EST)

They did, Here's the source, http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/viewinterview.asp?Id=272 . Petco 17:29, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Macro

As a Beastmaster, you'll fail a lot of charms in your lifetime. Especially soloing various NMs and charming resistant mobs. As a Beastmaster, I've used a Earth Staff / Terra's Staff since level 51, and this has saved me many, many times.

My Charm macro:

/equip "Main" "Apollo's Staff"
/ja "Charm" <t>
/echo {Charm} » <t>
/wait 1
/equip "Main" "Terra's Staff"

--Daniel 04:54, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

+Charm Gear

Can anyone add all the +Charm results somewhere? Like +5 charm = +1 minute to an Even Match. I believe +1 charm = +1 minute to an easy prey but not sure. I may add the data myself later but if anyone can earlier, that'd be helpful. Petco 02:50, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

+Charm Test Shows that +1 Charm seems to add 5% increased duration to the pet. Petco 05:56, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Where'd the total of Charm +30 come from? I get +26, with an additional +4 only for two families (thanks to Atlaua's Ring), or +27 in Assaults (with Marid Ancus, which should probably be added to the list of Charm+ gear anyway). The +30 feels slightly misleading because of this.--MDenham 06:17, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Resist Charm III?

I've been fighting in Bostaunieux Oubliette and some of the DC slimes I've been charming have been decharming before the 10min cut off; 10mins based off of charmed duration table and test. Would the Resist Charm III trait of a slime cause the charm duration of a Decent Challenge Slime to be lowered from 10mins to ~5mins? Sirtet 08:44, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

Using Charm when BST is set as subjob is affected by your real BST level, not your BST level as a sub.

After reading about people claiming it is true, and people claiming it is false, we decided to test it by ourselves.

A friend and I went to Eastern Altepa Desert as WHM38/BST19 both as Tarutaru and with no equipment at all, so we had exactly the same stats, the only difference was that her BST was level 35 and mine level 74.

Then we start spamming Gauge to some charmeable mobs in the area, Spiders, Beetles and Dhalmels and we found what for us is the prof of the above statement.

Most Even Match and Decent Challenge gave me the message "PLAYER should be able to charm the MOB" while the same monsters gave my friend the message "PLAYER might be able to charm the MOB".

A tough mob was "PLAYER might be able to charm the MOB" for me, and "It would be difficult for PLAYER to charm the MOB" for her.

And that's it. Oviorus 18:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

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This cannot possibly be right. I marked the paragraph on the page as needing verification and I really want to just delete it. On my 75 RDM/43 BST I am easily able to solo Escort for Hire - Bastok (Crawler's Nest). I easily charm level 50+ mobs which should be impossible for my 43 BST, but it goes really easy (in the neighborhood of a 50% success rate that lasts a normal amount of time for a full charm). It goes even better with simple charisma gear and a Light Staff. With a 75 Bard with me doing Etudes the importance of Charisma is very apparent. Success rate goes up as if we were charming EMs on our 43, near perfect. The Bard's BST is also 43 and we regularly charm Robber Crabs and the like (60+!!!) without difficulty.

Please either reword this to propose the theory that having a higher level main job BST "helps" charming things as a sub, or remove it entirely. The way its written now it implies that Charm is limited to your uncapped BST level and this is simply not true.

Freazer 21:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

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You do realize that that doesn't mean that its not based on your BST actual level, correct? Yes your BST may be lower than the pets you are charming, but Charm is also based on CHR, which you would have a good amount of on any lv75 job with a BST sub job. The fact that you can charm does not disprove anything - Hiachi 03:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Read what the page says. "If your Beastmaster job is only level 37 and you set it as a sub for another level 75 job, even tho a mob may con Easy Prey to you at 75, it would be considered Incredibly Tough for your 37 Beastmaster and it would be next to impossible to Charm it." Now read what I wrote again. Ok.

"next to impossible to Charm it" is where my problem is. A 50% charm rate and higher is not "next to impossible". If you want to claim that having a higher uncapped BST helps, write that. Do not say that it's impossible without an uncapped BST matching the level of the target, because that easily proven not true. - Freazer 19:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm more with Freazer on this, but a test should be done then with DRK75/BST1 against a BRD75/BST1 then perform the same test against a DRK75/BST37 and BRD75/BST37. People using Gauge is questionable. As a BST75 I rarely find Gauge accurate. If you perform a test please do at least 100 monsters with each job charming the same monster for accuracy. I know this would be a pain, but it would provide better test results. --Aizenmyou 20:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I just also had an idea that people using the Gauge ability to determine this; Gauge might be activating based on your uncapped BST and not actually be reading correctly your ability to charm or fail to charm based on your real stats. (i.e. a bug SE has never done anything about.) --Aizenmyou 21:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

The wording should basically be such that although the root strength of Charm is based on your actual BST level, your own CHR also factors in and as such, you can still charm something, with a BST SJ, that is well over the actual Charm range of your BST. Its not completely wrong in saying that it is based on the BST level, but yes, it isn't completely right in saying that you will not be able to charm something that is higher than your actual BST level period; rather it should say that extra CHR from the main job overrides this deficiency. - Hiachi 21:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I have heard of this rumor for long time and have always believed otherwise. I just think how unfair it is for this single job of BST where the actual main level of it affects how the job works when it's a subjob. No other job is like it. Even reading the information provided on here by the Gauge test, I still doubt it b/c Gauge is a fail test on charm, we're talking about Charm here, not Gauge. So finally I got a friend of mine to test this out. So here's the test:
I went as a SMN75/BST37 CHR @ 72+59=131 (Main BST37)
My friend went as RDM75/BST37 CHR @67+61=128 (Main BST60)
We went to Bibiki Bay and found this Tough Catoblepas and Charm away:
I go and Charm x4 and all failed, all while the mob is slept by my friend
My friend Charm x2 and succeeded
I went again and charm x10 failed
My friend Charm x1 succeeded
So now I think, what is the possibility that it's NOT b/c of BST main level, so I think, hey there's a gear @ level70 where RDM and BST can use, so maybe RDM DOES have an edge on charm for some unknown reason, so OFF we go and both change job to BLM75/BST37, where NOW the ONLY difference is the BST main level, and charm away:
I have CHR67+61=128, my friend ALSO has the same 128
I charm x2, succeeded
My friend charm x3, succeeded
I charm x10 all failed
My friend charm x2, succeeded
then we try rotate charm, I charm, he charm, I charm, etc
we did this 3x, the mob always charm by my friend
then my friend took off some CHR gear, and went to total CHR of 115
he charm x1 succeed 2 times, charm x2 succeeded.
So I thought, ok, LAST try, maybe there's a MAGIC number of CHR, so I go down to CHR=115, and charm 10+, ALL failed.
Me and my friend, same job BLM75/BST37, same race Hume, same CHR (128, then 115), same exact use of gears (we both used Apollo Staff), where the ONLY difference is BST main level of 37 (me) and 60 (my friend), and the charm success rate goes up considerably.
SO IN CONCLUSION, YES, Charm is greatly affected by BST main level even tho subjob capped @ 37. And b/c Apollo Staff and CHR also affects Charm, which is why I was able to charm that T mob ONCE. NOW i don't know if there's any penalty at all as mentioned by someone above me, as my friend is not BST75 for us to try, if he ever does get BST to 75, we'll test again and post. --Kenshinx 15:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

This isn't a very helpful test. Even a BST60 would have a hell of a time charming those. You need to find someone that is a BLM75 and a BST75. Your sample size for this test is far too low to claim charm is affected by an uncapped subjob (Which breaks all FFXI game logic in the first place.) Maybe someone could pose this question to the Dev team at the next Q&A session. --Aizenmyou 15:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I also tested the -20 CHR statement and found it to be completely false. Taru RDM75/WAR37 (WAR for low CHR) has 62 base CHR, Taru RDM75/WHM37 (WHM for medium CHR) has 65, and a Taru RDM75/BST37 has 67. If this statement were true the RDM/BST would have lower CHR than the other jobs, yet it still has the highest. No job will negate your attributes past what your main already has. --Aizenmyou 01:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry guys, that's how charm works. 75WHM/37BST charms 3 of 28 Torama (in Onzozo), 75WHM/65BST charms 24 of 28. Sabareq 07:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

※As RDM75/BST75 (+21 CHR in the B-tree) trying to charm DC-Even Steelshells I failed at least 2 charms out of 5 on the same crab which happened about 20 times in an hour. skilling up dagger. When I came back as BST75/NIN37 I failed twice in an hour and my BST was in full Melee gear with only CHR from my Tzar Egg. Don't even get my started on the flies. I will spend a day to get hard numbers by doing at least 100 charms on Non-dark day but I can assure you charm is CHR based. This is FFXI not fantasy land. This rumor started the same time people thought using Silent oils naked made them last longer... If someone going to Fan-Fest has the balls to ask this during the Q&A session it would save a lot of work. ☆--Aizenmyou 16:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)★

Weeee more tests. Context of the situation: duoing verdelet a few times. WHM75/BST71 (70+31 CHR) and RDM75/BST64 (61+40 CHR) charming Wild Karakul (Level 68-70).

WHM: 66/74 charms 89% (Gauge: "Should be able to charm...")

RDM: 54/71 charms 76% (Gauge: varies between "Might be able to charm..." and "Should be able to charm")

Also charmed slimes but not enough to be significant. If CHR is the only factor the numbers should be closer, but consistently me and my friend always get very different charm rates and hers gets better as her bst approaches mine. As has already been noted bst gets much better charm rates regardless. I'd imagine charm rate is a function of bst main level heavily modified by charisma. For the same reason that songs and rolls have a lower effect on subjobs, so too does charm. I am going to try it with 75PUP/15BST soon which should give a huge mischarm rate. I'll see how close to 101 CHR I can get pup, but it should be easy. Sabareq 21:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

※Your test is not valid in this manner. You must test with the same main job levels and different beast support job levels. Example: Player1 WHM75/BST71 vs. Player2 WHM75/BST40 (Apples to Apples). You cannot test different jobs mains against each other and make a conclusion and expect it to be scientifically correct. (Apples to Oranges) --Aizenmyou 22:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

※The difference being that a Bard or Corsair Support Job has the the same potency on songs and rolls whether you are subbing 75 BRD/COR or 37 BRD/COR. That is what makes Charm (if true) a completely unique game mechanic. There have been a lot of strange FFXI rumors over the years and I would love to have conclusive evidence. If true, it seems more akin to a bug in that someone forgot to cap Charm when used by a support job. It's entirely possible. For example: More than a year went by before salvage duping was discovered. --Zhizi 14:35, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Charm cooldown time

I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed before. I have a macro set to tell me the charm cooldown time.

/ja charm <t>
/wait 10
/echo Charm Ready!

However, when i try charm right after the 10 seconds is up, it tells me i have to wait 5 more seconds. If anyone can confirm this, the charm cooldown time should be changed to 15 seconds. --Ifidant 06:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)