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Article for Deletion

Oppose This page was wrongfully deleted before. I described the difference -- this cannot be split up, it is one feral skill. Please discuss. --ShadowsFell 01:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete: Page was previously deleted. The pages already exist at Resist Lightning (Feral Skill) and Resist Earth (Feral Skill)‎. The mobs that have both traits should be listed on each of those pages. --Wayka †Talk† 01:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose They are DIFFERENT feral skills. This is ONE feral skill that carries a +2 Lightning and a -2 Earth ... the others are two different feral skills, one that ONLY has +2 Lightning, and one that has +2 Earth. --ShadowsFell 01:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: You want to adjust the chart and make it five columns, at the end note how much resistance (eg +2, -2) and how many feral points are involved (eg 5, 8).

For example something like this on the Resist Lightning (Feral Skill):

Name Level Zone Description Feral Points
Example mob 1 Some Zone Trans Lightning+2 Trans Earth-2 5
Example mob2 2 Some Zone 2 Trans Lightning+2 8

Then something like this on Resist Earth (Feral Skill):

Name Level Zone Description Feral Points
Example mob 1 Some Zone Trans Lightning+2 Trans Earth-2 5
Example mob3 3 Some Zone 3 Trans Earth+2 8

Comment: Look at the Pankration forum, on the Organization thread ... its being discussed about how each different feral skill should have its own page, because there's a lot of information that needs to go in the table (mob family, zone, level, etc). All feral skills should be uniform. I honestly don't think what you're suggesting would make sense, as the mob list grows. --ShadowsFell 01:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Hmm. I see what you mean (I didn't see the other table, when I began editing last time). Can you change this to a normal delete, and let others weigh in, to get other opinions? --ShadowsFell 01:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Makes sense for this all to be one page, since nobody really cares about these skills. --GAHOO t/ c 03:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete: Having all these split up is messy, if we keep it organized in one place it would make more sense. No use creating articles, not to mention ones that can't be searched for, when it could be explained better on one page. Utilizing subpages if necessary. --CharitwoTalk 03:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: To be clear - i think the Lightning page should show all positive lighning resist possibilities, including those that have some negative earth resists. Similarly, the earth page shows all positive earth resists - with any negatives. There is no need for the earth page to show negative earth resists though. --GAHOO t/ c 03:52, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Does Resist Lightning (Feral Skill) look good? I'm satisfied with it. If everyone agrees, I can change my vote to delete. --ShadowsFell 12:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: I think all these monstrosities should be deleted, there is not enough information to warrant an article(some of which have a single sentence), plus some that CANNOT be searched for. It would be more appropriate to outline these on one page utilizing subpages as needed. Either that or put a Feral Skills section on the relevant articles, whichever is easier. --CharitwoTalk 23:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment: I see 3 options:

  1. Put the information on one page and use subpages if needed. (i.e. Feral Skills/Resist Lightning
  2. Merge it into the relevant article in it's own section or the Notes section. Instant Stoneskin (Feral Skill) -> Stoneskin, etc
  3. Incorporate it as a subpage of the aforementioned articles.

--CharitwoTalk 23:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's an example I used with a random pick of the many pages created today:
User:Charitwo/Sandbox5 vs. Demon Killer (Feral Skill).

The links at Category:Feral Skills along with the respective category inclusion linked to it is more than sufficient to cover what ShadowsFell is trying to accomplish. On top of that, people researching information on the skill are more likely to look on the main article anyhow. See where I'm coming from? --CharitwoTalk 00:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose What do you mean that they can't be searched for? Of course they can, test it out ... any of them come up. And why would the feral skills NOT warrant their own page? There is MUCH more information that needs to be found. The table on the main page is very unwieldly to manage, and edit effectively. It doesn't have enough information (Ecosystem, family). Making a separate page for each feral skill makes sense. How is this different from a Blue Mage spell? They all have their pages. Fire, Fire II, Fire III, all have their own pages. Finally, in the discussion in the Pankration forum, Gahoo's suggestion of making pages for feral skills was widely accepted -- and no one spoke against it. Until one person, now. I feel the overwhelming majority of players want to see the pages ... the Pankration Organization thread I think speaks for itself. And many of the pages only have one sentence because they are STUBs, a work in progress, that need more information on. Pankration came out very recently. Making the suggestion to make the feral skills subpages of the category is like saying all spells need to be subpages of a spell category. Barfire and Barfira are very similar anyway, why do THEY need their own pages? For that mater, why not put Barfire, Barwater, Barblizzard on the same Barelement page? See the point I'm trying to make? Again, I wasn't doing this cause I thought it was fun, not even cause it was my idea. Others wanted to go this route, and myself, as a Pankration player, find it most useful.--ShadowsFell 00:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, first of all watch your tone, you do not need to speak to me like that. Using caps lock isn't impressing anyone. Second, based on the existing and potential information, inclusion into the main article is perfectly acceptable for now and could stand as a subpage if a more in-depth expansion is warranted. Having Skill and Skill (Feral Skill) as separate articles is completely unnecessary when it could be incorporated into the former. I mean some of these are only 1-2 sentences long. I agree that Category:Feral Skills is too big, which is why I am proposing creating a Ferals Skills section of the appropriate article. --CharitwoTalk 00:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

My use of capitalization was to emphasize certain words, not to impress you. And yes, I feel I did need to use such a tone, to express the depths of my frustration. This discussion (organization of Pankration skills as a whole) should not even be on this talk page, it should either be on the Pankration talk page, or the Pankration Organization thread (in the Pankration forum) started for that purpose; the original purpose of the thread, to discuss the deletion of THIS article, I feel I have addressed by taking the recommended action and adding this feral skill to the Resist Lightning (Feral Skill) page. Unless I am wrong and have not seen it, you have not voiced a dissenting opinion about this proposed organization of Feral Skills pages on either of those locations. This reorganization was suggested weeks ago, and there has been ample time for you or anyone to offer up different opinions. No one, yourself included, has said "nay" to this suggestion in the last several weeks. Now, after putting in countless hours in the past week to help begin to bring this change to fruition, you offer up arguments, potentially nullifying a lot of my hard work. Work that I would not have begun if your opinion had been voiced in the appropriate forums, when this was first suggested. If I have missed your previous arguments, I apologize. You have also not countered my argument about how Feral Skills are no different than spells, all of which have their own pages. At this point, I feel I have contributed all I can to this discussion, and will adhere to whatever the common consensus is. Until one has been reached, I'll cease and desist all further modifications to the pankration pages. Please contact me via my talk page if you have any further questions or concerns. Thank you for your time. --ShadowsFell 01:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I think these pages are all needed. While some of them will certainly be less used than others, where would the Accuracy (Feral Skill) information go? (Accuracy? Accuracy Bonus? Accuracy Boost?) Also there are going to be a lot of ways to acquire some or all of these skills. If people want to pimp out their pets it makes sense for there to be a page describing it, not a note in a page about PC enhancements. Could they be subpages? Possibly, but don't think the categorization would work well. This is a huge project and IMO ShadowsFell has gone to great lengths to organize a load of information and should be commended. The way to limit these pages is with the columns to combine related entries - but feral skills have a lot of information and IMO deserve their own pages. I see no downside. --GAHOO t/ c 02:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete: This particular page can definitely be deleted. --ShadowsFell 02:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Resolution: Delete. --CharitwoTalk 04:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC) $ Insert formula here $

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