Summoning Magic Skill and non-BP physical accuracy[]
There have been numerous tests on SMS and its effects on BP accuracy, but has anyone tested whether or not skill over cap has any effect on the avatars' normal melee accuracy as well? --Kalantaru 06:08, 15 August 2009 (UTC) No effects on normal melee accuracy.
Skill=269
Melee Damage Player Melee Dmg Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit% Shiva 5885 29.81 % 141/76 64.98 % 30/49 38.86 10 64/95 79.40 7.09 %
Skill=279
Melee Damage Player Melee Dmg Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit% Shiva 6804 30.87 % 157/84 65.15 % 30/52 39.78 14 63/96 79.64 8.92 %
up comeing patches.[]
Didn't one of the patches in late 2005 make Blood Pacts SMN Skill dependant? Chernabog 07:58, 28 June 2006 (PDT)
I believe SE did say they were going to make 'Summoner Skill' affect Avatar's and their Bloodpacts more directly in one of the summer updates, but they haven't, as of yet, added that in. Playonline did show a timeline of upcomeing patches/updates to be added, thus, I believe it will be added at that time. (or should I say 'hope it will be') Jaysinsan 10:55, 25 August 2006 (EDT)
Summoning Magic Edit[]
Please post what you wrote on the Talk Page and not on the actual Skill Page. This is a fact based page and not for your experiences with it. Please refrain from adding something without posting it here first. Thank you! --Nynaeve 13:28, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
To elaborate, she is refering to the "me and my friends tested this" portion of your text. Your factual finding do belong on the main page, after a short discussion on the talk page. The problem is the wording. We want this to be stated in a factual matter, divorced from shown experiments, which themselves belong on talk pages. Things to include on the main page would be examples or a list of things that are effected by Summoning Magic Skill, to further illustrate your point, followed up by your recounting of your personal experiments on the talk page. --Chrisjander 13:35, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
Ah right sorry[]
Ah! {Understood}. Sorry about that didn't know ^^;
Added time formulas[]
I added the +time/skill level if you are over capped. I have the raw date stored if anyone would like to see them. It appears to be a linear increase but I don't know if it goes to a increasing scale as you get higher over skill cap. The BP:Rage info I found on Killing Ifrit forum and I do not know if it is linear or on a log scale. I also added a link to the spirit casting time formula. Elfi Wolfe 03:10, 18 November 2006 (EST)
I find that formula for the accuracy effect to be rather questionable in that the formula seems to expect a greater benefit than I feel like is there. I can't say for certain, of course. but with 309 skill, it just seems that if this is accurate, my avatar's attacks (particularly multi-hits) would be waay more accurate and magic BPs would be resisting damage waaay less. There is an improvement, definitely, but I dont think it's a +40 accuracy improvement (309-269). Tahngarthor 13:19, 7 January 2007 (EST)
interrupt chance[]
Isnt it well established that all magic skills affect the chance to be interrupted by damage? I feel quite confident in saying I got interrupted nearly every time I got hit when I first hit SMN75 (when my summon magic was way below cap) than I do now (where I have 309 and can often cast through fairly significant damage.) Tahngarthor 00:17, 30 December 2006 (EST)
I've played FFXI since its US launch and never heard that, so it can't be that well-established. --Kerwyn 04:13, 4 January 2007 (EST)
Well, they do. It's the one thing all magic skills have in common. It's why you get interrupted way more often on spells cast with a skill that's only on your subjob. I've cast summons through 150+dmg hits, but almost any damage will interrupt my cures/raise/etc. Skill determines this. A BLM casting a tier II nuke should get interrupted by the same damage less often than a DRK casting the same spell. (due to the DRK's lower skill) It's not a theory, as stated below. If you havent heard of it, its probably because you've never made a comparison. Tahngarthor 12:48, 4 January 2007 (EST)
I admit there's no practical way to do precision testing, but differences can be seen. The only way to prove beyond a doubt would be to have someone with high skill and someone with low skill repeatedly try to cast the same spell while both taking the same amount of damage from the same things. It is well-known that higher amounts of damage taken cause more interrupts, but because mobs generally dont do the same amount of damage on every hit, and randomly throw in criticals, there is no real way to produce consistent numbers to use for testing. That said, I'll pose this question: My healing magic skill is below even my subjob's cap, and my summon magic is 309, well above the cap. If skill does not affect spell interruption, why then does getting hit for ~80 damage by easy prey rarely interrupt me casting a summon spell, but nearly always interrupts me casting a cure spell? (The strange thing in this article is that it first states that the magic skill reduces spell interruption, then later says it is "believed" to reduce spell interruption.) Tahngarthor 13:13, 7 January 2007 (EST)
Article needs reorganizing[]
Something needs to be done about this article. I think the "facts" need to be reorganized into a list of facts and a list of theories to avoid confusion and spreading of possible (likely) errors. My suggestion follows. I know just about everything about Summoner, and to my knowledge, the items listed under theories have never been proven. Any conclusive evidence is welcome, but these things should not be touted as fact with little evidence beyond "it seems like it" or "I've heard this." --Kerwyn 04:37, 4 January 2007 (EST)
- Facts
- Decreases spirit spell-casting timer
- Skill beyond your current cap improves some abilities
- [Blood Pact: Ward]: Increased duration of abilities lasting less than 3 minutes
- [Blood Pact: Rage]: Increased power/accuracy
- Theories
- Improves spirit spell-choosing AI
- Decreases spell interruption rate when casting summoning magic
- Decreases spell/ability interruption rate of spirit/avatar
- Increases spirit/avatar resistance to abnormal status
Over capping[]
I just did some research into how much you can overcap SMN skill for these effects:
If you are over skill cap it affects Blood Pact: Rage and Blood Pact: Ward Blood Pact: Ward works on BP with less than 180seconds duration.
30sec +1sec/skill 150skill over cap to max of 180seconds 60sec +2sec/skill 60 skill over cap to max of 180seconds 90sec +3sec/skill 30 skill over cap to max of 180seconds 180sec no gain.
Blood Pact: Rage
+acc +macc = (Summoning magic total) -(capped summoning magic for level) Verification Needed
Using every gear/merit boost I could find on the this site I only goto a value of 75lvs above cap with this armor set:
Merit +16
Hands Summoner's Bracers +1 +12
Feet Nashira Crackows +5
Head Marduk's Tiara +7
Legs Marduk's Shalwar +5
Ring Evoker's Ring +10
Earring Summoning Earring +3
Neck Summoning Torque +7
Back Astute Cape +5
Staff Bahamut's Staff +5
--Markus 03:34, 25 January 2007 (EST)
- This is probably wrong, but can't you represent duration as something like:
duration = duration + (skill - cap) * (duration div 30)
It needs some refining... --Laraul 16:45, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
- I agree. The current formula of "30sec +1sec/skill 150skill over cap to max of 180seconds" and the other two formulas are entirely unclear to me. It may make sense to the person who wrote it like that, but it needs to be revised for understandability, please. --IEscape 16:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
- No one has edited this moonspeak yet? Can anyone figure this out? No clue what that broken english formula is supposed to mean. --JTimmons
- Edit: I finally figured out what he was trying to say and edited the page to be much clearer. Hope that helps. --JTimmons 16:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The number of skill over cap is what you would need to reach SE's stated maximum of 3 minutes duration. That doesn't mean it is achieveable. :) Tahngarthor 04:30, 3 March 2007 (EST)
earliest possible time to reach +30 over cap is level 71, using AF horn, austere pieces, summoning torque and earring, and evoker's ring. +60 is possible without resorting to marduk, relic+1, and bahamuts staff, but requires full merits, and sea access/limbus and one dynamis drop. --Frodnonnag 17:19, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
Physical Effects[]
I dont feel attack power is increased thru summoning magic . thru merits and the purchase of equipment i raised my skill by 7 (2 merits 3 pieces of austere gear) and saw a noticable improvement in Avatar Accuracy , but as far damage being delt , it was no higher . I use the Very Tough Hearldic Imps of Caedaver Mire as a base . With a skill Lv of 296 (20 over cap) Garuda would average approx. 900 damage per Predator Claws , but would either miss outright or deal very low damage (~200) at least once per Imp fight ( average imp takes 3 Blood Pacts to kill , basicly a 66% ACC) . After jacking Summoning Magic up to 303 Garuda still averages 900 damage but the occurence of low damage and outright misses decreased noticeably . If i had to give a number i would say accuracy increased from 66% to about 70-75% . As a small note i have 3 merits in both Avatar Accuracy and Attack . -Mikumaru
Summoning Magic effecting overall power or Blood Pacts?[]
So is there a definitive answer to this? Referring to Wildsprite's edit, if the article truly is false and Astral Flow simply puts Summoning Magic at full power, can someone please make a proper edit to reflect this? I'm not talking about over caps, just regular attack power. Looks like there's some confusion in the current article. --Ferretclaw 17:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Astral Flow[]
I've cut conflicting information from the article to be debated here. See below. --Leuqarte 16:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
below was edited by Wildsprite 13:35, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
this bit of information below is false, Astral Flow makes all Blood Pact: Rage/Blood Pact: Ward full power for its duration, your summoning magic skill does effect all Blood Pact: Rage/Blood Pact: Ward when Astral Flow is not active it always has:
Summoning magic skill was first believed to increase the overall power of an avatar or its Blood Pacts; however, this was proven false beyond doubt when the level 20 solo avatar battles were introduced. People with capped skill as well as people with nearly 0 skill could complete the battles and land full damage Searing Lights most of the time.
Astral Flow: Beyond the mythology[]
Summoning Magic has not always had an effect on Blood Pacts. Prior to The Oct 2006 update, which also included the separation of avatar abilities into 'Wards' and 'Rages', it had only two effects. The first was to lower the interruption rate of Summoning Magic and the second was to speed up the casting time of spirits, both of which are still present. However, After the update any Summoning Skill a player has ABOVE their normal skill cap will enhance Rage accuracy and Ward duration. For example, a summoner at level 75 with 280 Summoning Skill will be 11 points over the normal cap of 269 which is converted into additional enhancement duration and attack accuracy.
For additional information, please refer to the update news on the official Playonline website. Final Fantasy XI Update Oct 19 2006
Furthermore, Astral Flow does not cap your Summoning Skill and has never granted this effect. This can easily be shown by any Summoner without capped skill performing Astral Flow and checking their Magic Skills. Any bonus granted would change the figure shown, as with Scholar's job ability Light Arts or Dark Arts and Summoning Magic skill gear. There is also no change in accuracy or damage whilst Astral Flow is in effect save for the bonus given by additional skill as detailed above.
Crystan 23:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Summoning Magic Skillup[]
Being a former player that recently returned to the game, I can't find any information to see if there has been any changes to how skill up occur in summoning magic. When I played summoner which was before that update it would take hours to get a skill up and they rarely occured over the course of a regular group. Has this changed or did this remain the same.
- Indeed they have. As stated on the main page, you can get skillups from performing both Ward and Rage Blood Pacts, alongside just summoning the avatar in general. I played and leveled SMN a bit before the update as well, so it was a nice addition. Skilling up still seems slow in my opinion, lol. --Thundermelon 11:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
So after get my smn from 63 to 71 in mostly healing parties, I had to do the dreaded summoning magic skill-up. I'm not one for just sitting around repeatedly casting and releasing with no real gain. So found I could kill ralfesia(SP) in West Sarutabarua(S) for a bit of XP, and some npcable item, than jump into campaign battle when one started. However during three weeks of continuous work, I never once got a skill-up in the past. However when I solo'ed lesser colibri outside of whitegate, I would get tons of skill-ups.
Rest asured, that while I was killing the mutant flowers, I did not have allied tags on. I've even gone as far as to place a GM call about it only to be told they could not speak on the matter but advised me to try a different zone.
With that in mind, I moved to East Ronfaure(S) and killed ladybugs to farm wings, yet I still was unable to earn any skill-ups.
I've sinced gotten to 75 and capped my summoning skill in sky and limbus, so I'm unable to see if this has changed. Can anyone confirm whether it's possible or not? I just find it kind of odd I can get skill-ups on other magic/weapon skills, but not summoning. - Xeno
I spent two hours soloing Colibri which are Easy Prey to me at the moment, and my Summoning Magic skill being at 140 should definitely have gone up in that time, but I did not receive a single skill-up, not even a 0.1. I went back into Southern San d'Oria [S] and repeatedly cast/release and I skilled up eventually. It seems that there is something to the implication about skill-ups not working at all, or at least being incredibly slow in campaign battle areas. --Cybereal 01:49, January 1, 2010 (UTC)Ok, I have since received skill-ups while just casting Avatars as well as during battle using BP's in this area. It must have been bad luck before. --Cybereal 01:46, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
Incomplete and erroneous testing on avatar "jobs"[]
Moved this statement from the main page:
"All celestial avatars (Garuda/Ifrit/Leviathan/Titan/Shiva/Ramuh) and Diabolos are considered Black Mages Test source: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=15&mid=1249969202287542102&num=10&page=1"
Boldly declaring the job of something to be BLM based solely on testing revealing it has the INT of a BLM and the magic attack bonus trait is foolish. Until testing is done on their STR that shows they have the STR of BLMs, they cannot be called such. Given the ridiculously powerful and consistent 4-digit damage of Eclipse Bite, Predator Claws, Flaming Crush, and Chaotic Strike, it is unfathomable to call them BLMs.
Considering their native physical and magic damage reduction traits that no job has, and the fact that they only use unique abilities to the SMN job (although some do share names with black magic, they are not the same in accuracy, damage, mp cost, and are not even cast as spells, but rather readied as job abilities), it is unlikely that avatars have any "job" that we can label them as.
Furthermore, the mob versions of the following avatars prime actually summon in battle: Carbuncle summons replicas of himself and the six celestial avatars; the true Garuda/Shiva/Ifrit/Ramuh/Leviathan/Titan all reside in their crystals during the trial quests (you can see them in there still during CS and battle) and each summon a weaker replica of themselves for adventurers to fight; additionally, those same six avatars actually LEAVE the crystal during the Waking the Beast fight, and the true avatars continuously summon and re-summon elementals during the fight; Alexander and Odin summon images of themselves during battle. That leaves all prime avatar mobs with the ability to summon except Fenrir Prime and Diabolos Prime. So, the mob versions summmon and use ONLY SMN abilities (except Odin, Alexander, and Diabolos, who were not originally prime avatars). The celestial avatars are SMNs if you want to classify them at all.--Blue Donkey Kong 12:51, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Whoa there. While you're not entirely wrong there, All mobile entities in the game have a job. Many mobs that aren't explicitly another job are WAR/WAR (yes war with war sub). Many mobs that have mage jobs, especially beastmen, have WAR as a sub as well. It is not infathomable for a "BLM" entity to hit for hard physical damage. Many creatures in the game hit for heavy physical damage despite having all the characteristics of a mage job. Tahngarthortalk-contribs 01:32, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
The "incredibly high and consistent" 4-digit damage you speak of can be attributed to the high damage modifier the bloodpacts get, the fact that they can critical, and the fact that avatars cap at 4.2 pdif (and as such at cap vary from 4.0-4.2) which is huge. Just because they can hit hard, it doesn't mean that the avatars have a high amount of strength. A black mage can put out some fun numbers, for being a black mage that is, using a 300 tp sneak attack full swing. Still won't compare to DD jobs but for being a black mage, that's about the best you can do. Now look at avatars, who can cap at higher pdif than that forced critical, and have a multiplier of 12.0 on say spinning dive (whereas full swing is 5.0). That's quite a big difference.--Annalise 20:39, September 19, 2010 (UTC)