What would be a good way to set up this page? I'd copy/paste the details from today's patch, but... :P--Tradition 20:39, 18 December 2006 (EST)
They updated the update details to say that some ToAU missions need to be completed first. I've heard that you need to have finished ToAU 15 to do this. I'm not sure, but I'm on 15 and can't do Salvage yet, so you have to be on 16 or higher, at least. --Aleithilithos 00:42, 19 December 2006 (EST)
I've heard people shouting in Aht Urhgan that it's 18. --Chrisjander 00:45, 19 December 2006 (EST)
Imbued Items
The list of Imbued Items has 2 VIT items, is this correct? Also, abilities is repeated. (I'd imagine this might be because the list was taken from that thread on KI.) Also, SE showed the DEX cell. --Jopasopa 21:43, 19 December 2006 (EST)
Salvage Mob Template
I was fiddling around with the Mount Zhayolm Remnants page and ran into a slight problem: there isn't a good way to add the mobs. The standard template that is used in normal zones has a lot more information than is probably relevant (things like level and steal) and the Dynamis mob template doesn't have enough (no room for aggro type, which is important since not all Salvage mobs are True Sight/Sound). I can create a new one that is a hybrid of the two, but I thought I would ask about it here first. » Lokim 00:38, 20 December 2006 (EST)
I agree your new template sounds more effective i'd also like to see a version of the Dynamis mob template with more information-Heretic mkII@ffxi
Jobs
I assume that it would be wrong to say that some jobs should be required to enter here. Obviously anyone can enter, but jobs without native H2H skill become absolutely useless. My first failed attempt at salvage had 1 PUP (with capped H2H) and 2 NINs who hadn't ever bothered to skill it up at all (in fact, they were amazed at getting .5 skillups over and over). It should also be mentioned that a Dragoon can call a Wyvern pre-entry and keep it out when you zone in, and the Wyvern doesn't appear to have any negative status attached to it, as our DRGs Wyvern tanked our first mob for us. I cannot speak for avatars or BST pets, but I would assume that traditional zoning with a pet rules would still apply. --Toxictaru 01:25, 21 December 2006 (EST)
Category
Should the link on the main page to this page be under storyline like Assault & Besieged ? -Heretic mkII@ffxi
I say Exploring Vana'diel is good for right now (it focuses on you exploring an unexplored part of Vana'diel) until Salvage is confirmed to have any major impact on the storyline... Each Assault has their own little story, and Besieged is central to ToAU's story. Salvage seems more like Limbus where the goal is mostly collecting equipment and having a good time. --Jopasopa 10:45, 24 December 2006 (EST)
Salvage Cell Histories
I've posted some of the historical backgrounds for the imbued cells. I have partial writeups for the rest. I'll post the rest when they're completed sometime in the next day or so. Happy christmas to everybody. Don't let the tree get up and attack you in the living room since you have no household moogle to help you :D --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 23:59, 24 December 2006 (EST)
Locked in a set?
Someone recently put that you are locked into a set once you finish 1 piece of the set (and it was worded as if this were 100% true). However, didn't Wafik confirm that this is not true? --Jopasopa 21:25, 27 December 2006 (EST)
- Nobody has completed any pieces yet, I don't know how Wafik could confirm either way. --23:26, 27 December 2006 (EST)
Well, it obviously wasn't 100% confirmed, but some text or something he showed indicated something... I can't recall any of it at the moment. ^^; --Jopasopa 23:42, 27 December 2006 (EST)
I think the way it works is that if you start trading the NPC Rare/Ex pieces from a set, that's the only set you can trade him pieces from. However, you can always withdraw all the pieces and then store a different set when you want to upgrade something else. This is the impression I get from the NPC Dialog. --Faranim 12:44, 30 December 2006 (EST)
Slots
Could someone maybe make a chart-thingy for my slots theory, which was proven correct, at [1]? I'm not that great at charts, but I'm thinking something like:
Area | Monster | Card | Drops (Not really needed, since the drops will be listed on the respective monster's pages.)
--Jopasopa 11:02, 31 December 2006 (EST)
Map
This map is halfway useless, because Tandjana Islet and Hediva Isle are only accessable by going through the ruins from different entrances, so marking those as "entrances" on this map is misleading. You have to go through Nyzul Isle to get to some of the remnants. --Toksyuryel 12:04, 4 January 2007 (EST)
Drops Tables
I'd like to reorganize the drops tables so that the major column headings are the armor slots, and subheadings are the individual pieces, so you don't have to look all over the table to find the three parts of the armor item you're going for. Any objections? --Valyana 15:33, 7 January 2007 (EST)
- Either that or put the armor slots on the row headings and move the salvage areas to the column subheading position. Either way, I want to be able to look at a single column or row to find out where all the pieces for, say, Skadi feet come from. --Valyana 15:35, 7 January 2007 (EST)
Total Monsters per zone
Could someone with a .dat miner go through the .dat files for each Remnant and tally up how many monsters of each name total exist? The layout as is is fine for more specific information, but the standard zone layout should be added to each remnant, which would include a monster index, the one that uses blue for monsters, red for NMs. That could be put above the current information. A master index on the top could be like:
1. General Information
2. Zone Information
3. First Floor
4. Second Floor
5,6,7,etc etc
The notes section of the enemy data table can indicate how many appear on each floor or each subdivision of the floor as well, and it would form an easy index of which Salvage monsters need pages of their own and which Near East monsters need to have __ Remnants added onto the table of zones they appear in (e.g. all the Mamool Ja Jobists). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 22:03, 12 January 2007 (EST)
The Salvage threads in BG concerning a specific remnants area have a good list of mobs in the .dats on each of the first pages, except for the Zhayolm thread which has it on the fourth page. --Jopasopa 23:13, 12 January 2007 (EST)
Slot NMs
The section listing Slot NMs is a bit vague. There are 2 possibilities I can foresee and the section doesn't indicate which is the case:
- Possibility 1: Does each listed NM spawn in all 4 Remnants? That is, is each NM associated with a specific card item and not with any one zone per se?
- Possibility 2: Does each card pop a different NM in a different Remnant? If this is the case, then there should be a lot of blank slots for NMs that would pop but who haven't been yet.
Which one is the case? Whichever one is, the section should make that more clear. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 23:18, 12 January 2007 (EST)
Thought it was pretty obvious: For each remnant, there is 1 Slot NM, and they're each spawned via a card obtained by archaic machines from another Salvage area. Someone could add that and word that however they want, I'm going to bed. --Jopasopa 23:27, 12 January 2007 (EST)
Armoury Crates
Have all of these items been confirmed? Or are people just listing off every single TMP item in the game? I can't understand why there need to be 2 different items for boosting max MP, and several of these I have never seen in any of my runs. Just looking for some confirmation. The table could perhaps be reformatted to indicate which areas and chests the items have been confirmed to come from. --Toksyuryel 13:37, 17 January 2007 (EST)
- The only ones that I haven't seen myself are Revitalizer and Wizard's Drink. --Sykes 21:47, 18 January 2007 (EST)
- Found a Revitalizer in Arrapago last night. --Aurikasura 17:39, 13 April 2007 (EDT)
- During a run in Bhaflau, I got a Dusty Wing (300TP) which doesn't seem to be listed. -Nivlakian 01:51, 13 February 2007 (EST)
Drop Table Formatting
Which table format is best for displaying item drops in Salvage? The two options I'm comparing are a) The table at the bottom of the Arrapago Remnants page, and b) the table at the bottom of the Zhayolm Remnants page. For me, personally, the Arrapago Remnants table is much uglier and more difficult to look at because the words and newlines break the symmetry. On the other hand, it provides more useful information in telling you where the different items drop. Of course, that information should be displayed somehow, so I propose using the Zhayolm Remnants table format where the checkboxes link to the individual items, as well as some information right below the table that breaks the drops down by what floor in the zone you obtain them on, and display the mobs there. Thoughts? -Divisortheory 22:05, 11 March 2007 (EST)
Summary Explanation
I think the Summary part of the drops on the category page is long and drawn out and doesn't really provide any useful information. Is anyone opposed to just deleting it? I think it's superceded by the Route Categorization table, which IMO provides a lot more useful information in a much more concise fashion. Information specific to individual zones should be left on the individual zone pages. --Divisortheory 13:08, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
The summary was much better back when we weren't too sure about the specifics of stuff dropping and when we only had a general idea of the drop patterns. Now that we mainly need to confirm mostly Madames' drop/pop status, it's not too useful. --Joped 13:23, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
I still think the summary information might fit well on the individual zone pages. But instead of a long list like that, I might be able to make it a table, called "Area Drop Theme" or something. But yea, I really think it takes up too much real estate on an already long page, and we would do well to shorten that page wherever possible so first timers aren't intimidated by the amount of information. --Divisortheory 13:28, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
Added such to Zhayolm. "Area Drop Theme" sounds better than the name I put. Also, I think Availability>Theme>Locations would've been better than the order I put it in. --Joped 13:41, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
I like the salvage route categorization table format as well. Very compact and no white space. With the information presented like that the Drop section can be removed because the information is redundant. Only thing is I feel the difficulty ratings are either misleading or unnecessary. --Valient 13:26, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
I'm starting to agree here about deleting the drops section. Is anyone opposed to this? The exact same information is presented in the 2 route categorization tables, except more compact and less whitespace. --Divisortheory 11:17, 13 April 2007 (EDT)
Route Difficulties
Having done quite a bit of Salvage, I think the difficulty ratings are fairly accurate. They take into account not one but all 3 areas involved in the route, what has to be done in each area on the route, as well as how much information is available on the route.
For example, in route 4 you have to not only defeat the boss of the most difficult zone, but you also have to get Lv. 35 equipment from NMs which people don't even fully understand how to pop.
For route 3, the Lv. 15 equipment comes from NMs which people also don't know how to pop, the Lv. 35s come from NMs which people either don't quite understand how to pop (3rd floor rampart), have terrible and sporadic conditions (getting the HQ spawn from the rampart, THEN getting the drop), and often you have a 0% chance of even getting to the rampart anyway (Mad Bomber, causing the Archaic Gear to warp on 4F).
For route 2, you have to deal with the Zhayolm Remnants boss, who actually turns out to not be that difficult, but getting to him with enough time is fairly tough and requires some experience. Likewise with the Lv. 35 NMs in Silver Sea Remnants, and you could even say the same for Arrapago Remnants just because the zone itself is hard (although the Lv. 15 drops are easy to get). Essentially, route 2 consists of 3 zones of medium difficulty.
For route 1, the Bhaflau Remnants boss is a pushover both in terms of getting to him with enough time, and defeating him. Silver Sea Remnants Lv. 15 farming is a breeze, all the NMs are 100% drop and 100% pop. Farming Arrapago Remnants for the Lv. 35s is the hardest part clearly, but it's certainly no harder than farming Arrapago Remnants for route 2 and route 4, and definitely easier than dealing with Zhayolm Remnants pop conditions, defeating the Silver Sea Remnants boss, and dealing with Bhaflau Remnants Rampart NMs.
Sorry for the long winded explanation, but that was where the difficulty ratings come from. I want to make sure people know which is the "beginner's route" and which is the "don't try this unless you already have a ton of experience with Salvage" route. --Divisortheory 13:52, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
Is there any possibility of an explanation as to what exactly the different routes are? I may be missing something completely (actually, I am), but I have no idea how to figure out what the different routes are besides their numeric designations. --WinterNightz 12:43, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
- I'm not sure if there's a way to make it any clearer than it already is. The table lists each route along with the zones and equipment involved in the route. What part exactly is unclear? --∂ινιζσrτhεσry(Need help? Ask me!) 18:01, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
This is likely just because my shell's only starting up with Salvage. Am I correct in thinking that Route 1 is simply going through Silver Sea first, then Bhaflau second, and Arrapago third? --WinterNightz 18:59, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
- Sort of, but the order doesn't really matter. The purpose of a "route" is just to define how to get completed pieces most efficiently. Before routes were defined people would say, for example, "ok today is gonna be Bhaflau Remnants NMs, and tomorrow is gonna be Zhayolm Remnants boss". This is inefficient. Why? Because Bhaflau Remnants NMs drop Lv. 35 gear and Zhayolm Remnants boss drops 25 gear. Looking in the route table we find Bhaflau Remnants 35s are Route 3, and Zhayolm Remnants 25s are route 2. This means that no matter what drops you get from the Bhaflau Remnants NMs on the first day, nothing you can possibly obtain from the Zhayolm Remnants boss the next day will be for the same upgrades. Instead, you should have done Silver Sea Remnants boss. This way, say you got Enlil's Brayettes from Gate Widow in Bhaflau Remnants. Doing Silver Sea Remnants boss the next day you have a chance to get Ea's Brais from the boss. Now instead of having two 1/3s, you have a 2/3. So the point of the route is to define how and where to get matching pieces of equipment for upgrades. --∂ινιζσrτhεσry(Need help? Ask me!) 17:56, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
Route Table Revamp?
How about?
You still end up with 4 tables instead of 1 though, which was what I was trying to prevent :( Or at least 1 table with 20 rows. Was trying to make it as compact as possible. Did you find the separation into 2 tables hard to understand? This one has better colors and I like checks and x's instead of numbers that aren't linked, but I think when you add the other 4 rows in there, the amount of checks and x's is going to be hard on the eyes, and x's are essentially still "whitespace". --Divisortheory 11:51, 13 April 2007 (EDT)
- I find the split tables confusing. I copied the above to make it full size. personally I don't think it looks too big. --Gahoo 10:01, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
- Maybe only use checks, leave the x cells blank? --Valyana 12:17, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
For the sake of comparison and to have everything in the same place, we're comparing the one above with the following two (the information is equivalent, it's just a matter of style):
| Route # | Difficulty | Lv. 15 | Lv. 25 | Lv. 35 |
| 1 | 4/10 | Silver Sea | Bhaflau | Arrapago |
| 2 | 6/10 | Arrapago | Zhayolm | Silver Sea |
| 3 | 8/10 | Zhayolm | Silver Sea | Bhaflau |
| 4 | 10/10 | Bhaflau | Arrapago | Zhayolm |
| Armor | Head | Body | Hands | Legs | Feet |
| Ares | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 4 |
| Skadi | 3 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 1 |
| Usukane | 2 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 3 |
| Marduk | 4 | 4 | 1 | 3 | 2 |
| Morrigan | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 4 |
Note: would be better if these two tables were encompassed by one large table, and aligned on the same horizontal row. But too much work for me atm.
So far the camps seem split. I and a one or two other people I've asked prefer the split table since it's more concise and less deadspace. The larger table has the advantage of being able to make the checks clickable to take you directly to the individual piece of equipment, although that could be handled with the split table by making GIFs of the numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 and making those take you to the armor page. --Divisortheory 12:30, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
- The question in my mind is how this is intended to be used. If the question is: I want the Ares's headpiece. How do I get it? then the bottom table probably more helpful. If the question is: I am a beginner and want to take the easy 4/10 route. What can I expect to get? I like the top table. I don't do salvage so take my suggestion with a grain of salt. If you go with the bottom table, I would try to incorporate the colors so that it looks nice against the rewards section. Also since if the question is the former - then the second table should come first: i.e. --Gahoo 12:46, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
|
|
Your horizontal layout is exactly what I was hoping someone would do, hehe. Thanks :) I see your point about the question of "I want to take the beginner's route, what can I expect to get?" In the end, I think people will be asking both questions. I wonder what it would look like with a hybrid of the two formats.
| Route # | Difficulty | Lv. 15 | Lv. 25 | Lv. 35 | Ares | Skadi | Usukane | Marduk | Morrigan |
| 1 | 4/10 | Silver Sea | Bhaflau | Arrapago | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body |
| 2 | 6/10 | Arrapago | Zhayolm | Silver Sea | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body |
| 3 | 8/10 | Zhayolm | Silver Sea | Bhaflau | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body |
| 4 | 10/10 | Bhaflau | Arrapago | Zhayolm | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body |
Like this, but formatted better (perhaps with a colspan=3 for the Lv.15, 25, 35, and colspan=5 for the different sets. As well as having everything linked to the appropriate piece/set, etc. --Divisortheory 13:04, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Something like:
| Route | Difficulty | Equipment Upgradeable from this Route | Upgrade Component Locations | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ares | Skadi | Usukane | Marduk | Morrigan | Lv. 15 | Lv. 25 | Lv. 35 | ||
| 1 | 4/10 | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body | Silver Sea Remnants | Bhaflau Remnants | Arrapago Remnants |
| 2 | 6/10 | Legs | Hands | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Arrapago Remnants | Zhayolm Remnants | Silver Sea Remnants |
| 3 | 8/10 | Hands | Head, Body | Feet | Legs | Hands | Zhayolm Remnants | Silver Sea Remnants | Bhaflau Remnants |
| 4 | 10/10 | Feet | Legs | Hands | Head, Body | Feet | Bhaflau Remnants | Arrapago Remnants | Zhayolm Remnants |
--Gahoo 13:48, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Added the rest of the info. Thoughts? --Divisortheory 15:20, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Love that chart. It makes it really easy to decide where you want to go next in a condensed form. --Joped 15:23, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
I'd like to suggest a change to the route table difficulties now that Zhayolm's lv15 components have all been figured out. I would suggest Zhayolm boss route as 4 or 5/10, Bhaflau boss route as 9/10, Arrapago boss remaining at 10/10 due to unfound lv35 components, and Silver Seas boss route as 6/10, since the boss is still not a pushover but everything else is easy to get now. --Wizerd 05:41, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
Usukane naming
Has anyone noticed the strange naming convention used for the Usukane (and subsequently Tsukikazu and Hikazu) sets? I looked up the Japanese name: 薄金篭手 (usugane kote), in which usugane translates as light(weight)golden [armor] and kote is the familiar word for hand armor. It seems the translator somehow took a different reading than usual for 篭 resulting in the odd-looking "Gote". But then the transliteration "usuKane" is still very strange and the kote transliteration mistake is not present on the other pieces... why? --Eithin 06:09, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
The Usug/kane thing has been bothering me for a while, too. Never noticed that they were spelt "gote," though. o_O --Joped 11:19, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
The NPC also refers to the set as the "Usugane" set when you upgrade. In all likelihood, the correct pronunciation of the syllable is somewhere inbetween English 'ga', 'go' and 'ka', 'ko', leading to inconsistent translation. --Aurikasura 03:47, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
Well, "ga", "go", "ka", and "ko" are all native Japanese sounds, and all have completely different writings. So regardless of what it might sound like when people are speaking, there is a clearly defined way of writing it, which is how it should have been transliterated. 薄金 definitely uses the writing for usugane and 篭手 definitely uses the writing for kote, so it really does seem like an error in transliteration, although I'm certainly no linguistics expert. There isn't even such a word as "gote" (ごて) in Japanese (actually there is but it refers to a situation in Japanese chess / go), although there is a word "kote" (こて). Similarly, the correct writing for 篭手 is うすがね (usugane), not うすかね (usukane). --Divisortheory 10:53, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
I understand that the reason for the mistake might be the discrepancy between English and Japanese phonetics. But still, ALL other "kote" type hand pieces are called "kote" o_O... Then again, I believe the erroneous HP+4% on the English Melee Crown also still hasn't been corrected, so I'm afraid we'll just have to live with Usukane Gote :P --Eithin 17:27, 22 April 2007 (EDT)
It's ironic to note that the mistranslated items mentioned are all Far Eastern items, and SE is a Japanese company. >_> --Joped 17:35, 22 April 2007 (EDT)
Also, they misspelt it for the Usukane Armor enemy used in the Feast of Swords. --Joped 17:40, 22 April 2007 (EDT)