Talk: Jobs

"Advanced" vs. "Extra"[]

According to: The Official Playonline Site, the sometimes denoted "Advanced Jobs" are really known as "Extra Jobs".

So please stop changing it. All the unlockable jobs are as "Advanced" as the standard jobs. --Daniel 06:37, 15 June 2006 (PDT)

The FFXI manual states these as Advanced Jobs. As well as the reasoning being you have to be level 30 to unlock them, hence why they are called advanced jobs. This should be changed back, "extra" sounds completely inappropriate.--Aletheia 08:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Playonline website is more updated than the manual, and on it, the jobs are currently divided between "Jobs" and "Extra Jobs". Given that the truncated label "Jobs" would be confusing for our purpose, we adapted an older S-E term, "Standard Jobs". (See Service and Support Question Q11119.) BTW, the Japanese terms S-E uses are スタンダードジョブ and エキストラジョブ--which are phonetic English for "Standard Job" and "Extra Job"--meaning that S-E's designers picked out the English terms, then picked Japanese letters which best matched the sounds.

In any case, "Extra Jobs" is correct. --FFXI-Itazura 11:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I just checked the FFXI manual (FFXI w/ RotZ), and it states "Standard Jobs" and "Extra Jobs". The CoP manual does not include any information about jobs (as none were released in that expansion). The TAU manual mentions "New Jobs", and that's it. These will remain as "Extra Jobs". --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 15:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Look in your ToAU manual again, in the "New Jobs" section, where it goes into the descriptions for BLU, COR and PUP. "Completing certain quests will allow you to access additional Advanced Jobs". So they say Advanced in ToAU. And strange, but my FFXI manual (the original with RotZ) clearly says Advanced jobs, not Extra. Not sure why exactly, unless there was a reprint later on, or before. Either way I never saw that as a way of saying the standard jobs were somehow weaker, or inferior to the others, but more like you had to be at least somewhat "advanced" in order to obtain them. --Aletheia 09:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Or, it takes "extra" effort like completing a few quests?

The game is Japanese in origin, and I really don't see what's wrong with sticking with terms closest to matching the Japanese terms, especially when S-E is using them on their English web site. "Extra" makes sense to me, as it is neutral and implies only a sense that they are "optional"; whereas "advanced" almost seem to say they are "better" or "improved" somehow. Even if both "Advanced" and "Extra" are correct, I much rather have the neutral toned one. --FFXI-Itazura 09:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well like you said, since they are using that on the Pol website I can only assume thats what they want them referred to as. Even though thats only instance I've found where they use that term. I'm quite sure they called them advanced jobs on the website as well at one point, maybe they changed it for the same reason as your argument, as I agree, it doesn't 'sound' neutral. I'll be curious to read the Wings of the Goddess manual, and see how their referred to in there.--Aletheia 21:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

If it was called Advanced Jobs on the POL website before, I never saw it. Even my ancient, battered Spring 2004 Brady's Guide (I'm not ashamed!) calls them "Extra Jobs". However, I have had people swearing the website said "Advanced" until I make them go look at it themselves... Anyway, I believe we have consensus now that "Standard Jobs" and "Extra Jobs" labels are appropriate, until S-E changes them. --FFXI-Itazura 12:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Unlocking job pages in order to allow people to add new abilities and spells. --Gahoo 15:04, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

S&W sections[]

Perhaps these should just be removed completely. S&W are inherrently subjective. If someone wants to make a subjective guide about a job and its S&W so be it, but maybe these pages are not the right spot. Maybe it should just have a sentence instead which objectively describes what it is that this job does. I.e. someone new to the game should be able to go to WHM and learn that it is a healer. --Gahoo 14:00, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

I think the part on the bottom with the pie charts is reversed as far as the dates is concerned. the 2005 yeay shows the ToAU jobs. --Just Bri Thanks 04:17, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

Main Stats[]

I think this addition looks silly and rediculus. It's too opinionated of a subject to me and shouldn't really be on the main jobs page. --Zero 21:16, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Also, two jobs (Bard and Beastmaster) have a stat that they don't natively use (MP) listed as one of their "main stats". --Serynth 16:05, 3 December 2006 (EST)

I agree withb Zero. I vote for these additions to be removed. --Gahoo 09:42, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Its also seems to be based on opinions. Main stats WAR? HP. Yet not to Monk who gets Bonus HP... mmmk. They also are quite tacky. --Edamus 23:06, 4 December 2006 (EST)

And now it looks better. ^^ --Chrisjander 00:10, 5 December 2006 (EST)

New Look[]

I know someone has put a lot of time into redoing the job pages, but... um... they look really bad, sorry. The old style was much better. The redone ones are much too busy and it is more difficult to view the info. The pastel color scheme seems a bit hard on the eye as well. Why put all the extra lines and formating in? It only detracts from the awesomeness that they once were. Can we please have the old style back?--Sparik 07:17, 16 December 2006 (EST)

The original plan was just to delete the Strengths and Weaknesses sections because they were entirely subjective and subject to lengthy debates of what should and shouldn't be in there. However, when the discussion to delete the S&Ws came up, Administrator Gahoo wanted to also reformat the page. I, however, liked the white. I lost the vote. So the pastel went in. So to answer your questions, we took a vote on the forums, and us white-background supporters lost. --Mierin 11:33, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Summoner[]

I've had conflicting information as to whether SMN was released as a RoZ "preview" in late March or early April 2003, 1-2 weeks before the release of RoZ. If somebody knows when it was added, please add that to this page. I'm modifying the statement added to the main page to avoid confusion (i.e. so many people think SMN was around since the start and don't release it is a Zilart Job even though what phase/expansion of the game it is associated with it a little dicey). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 10:35, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Nevermind, I see that it was removed by someone else. Guess that happens when you browse all the site updates since you last visited and miss some of the more recent corrections as you scroll up. I do remember FFXI- Dreams in Vana'diel forums having some info on when the Job was released based on their chatter back in March or April 2003. I could go back at some time and check to see when exactly they start talk about unlocking SMN. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 10:38, 3 January 2007 (EST)

I believe SMN was released during the update that proceded(read prepared for) the actual release of Rise of the Zilart. I do not know how long that was before the actual release however, or an actual date, so I only post on talk. Karthal 11:05, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Ordering[]

Is there any paticualar reason why the starting jobs are in the game's listed order and the extra jobs are in alphabetical order? Shouldn't it be listed all like this: Warrior - Monk
White Mage - Black Mage
Red Mage - Thief
Paladin - Dark Knight
Beastmaster - Bard
Ranger - Samurai
Ninja - Dragoon
Summoner - Blue Mage
Corsair - Puppetmaster
--Zero 17:12, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Frankly I think the starting jobs should be alphabetical at this point. --GAHOO t/ c 21:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Or perhaps in the same order they appear in the original manual? Or on the POL website? --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 23:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

How about divide by expansion pack, then within each section, laid out chronologically, then list each job within section by ... er, well, I don't really care past that point, as long as I can identify which expansion pack is associated with which jobs. When there's four or fewer jobs per section, the order really won't matter much. --FFXI-Itazura 12:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Warrior, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Red Mage, Thief is the order it appeared Final Fantasy I. (except Monk was called Black Belt.) --User:Magico 4:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to order them according to how they appear on your game list. This also, conveniently, groups them by expansion. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 15:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it at all possible to have the expanding menu on the left side also follow the same ordering fashion as the game list? I personally would like it more, for aesthetic purposes - but it's just me. --Elixer_of_Quetz 15:59 01 May 2009 (CST)

Job Stats[]

I wasn't sure where to put this, because I wanted it to apply to all jobs. Anyways, I'd like to have the Stats(str, dex, ect) added to the profiles of each job. Much like we have the combat skills and magic skills, I'd like a box with the ratings of the stats in ABC listings. Some of the information can be gathered from this site: http://ffxi-stat-calc.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/ffxistats.cgi?mode=document the actual numbers the site produces aren't 100% accurate but the stat ratings should be. The wheaty 23:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The only problem with this is that it's not even across the board. While you might attempt to base this off a Hume's stats, it still varies considerably between different races. Combat skills follow a specific progression, and with attributes varying in both value and progression between races (even on the same job), it becomes very difficult to evaluate these as a specific arbitrary value. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 00:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not asking for hard numbers to show. That would be difficult to make a good display for. Just an ABC listing. like PLD Str = B; Dex = E; Vit = A ect ect. Regardless of race you can expect a PLD to have more base Vit then most other jobs. Even though its entirely possible for a Mithran Pld to have a higher base Dex over her Vit due to racial bonuses, she would still have more Vit then a Mithran Thf or War of the same lvl. I still feel that this information would be useful to show how your choice of job(esp. in the case of subjobs) would effect your over all base stats. The wheaty 08:31, 5 Janua

I understand what you're getting at, and it's a fine idea. I'm just saying, due to the disparity between the values and progressions in different races, it's difficult to assign arbitrary letter values to these attributes. Certainly if you can come up with a comprehensive way of assigning these values, I'm all for it. But I believe it would take alot of research to find all the values for each race, and then figure out how your job and race effect your stats. Unfortunately, the stat calculator, though most likely very accurate for level 75, is too inaccurate overall to base stat research in. You'd likely have to actually go and ask someone for each job at each level what their base stats are (a daunting task indeed), and then compile the info so it can be examined. I'm sure a pattern will emerge at that point, and values can be assigned. --◄Chrisjander► t/ c 22:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Job Guides[]

Concerning Job-Race Combinations. As you may have noticed many guides spanning across numerous Jobs often describe how to overcome racial inequities by using RSE equipment. A side note should be added:

The use of RSE armor occupies an equipment slot, although stats are gained to overcome racial differences, complications may arise from the availability of items, desirable for that particular job, that occupy the same slot.
Example: A Hume, Tarutaru and Mithra, as Paladin job, are all wearing a Swift Belt(4% Haste, no HP), there is an event in which they would like to raise their HP to around the same amount as a Elvaan/Galka... the RSE Belts give ample HP so they all switch these into the waist slot... The dilemma is they raise HP by switching out an item which the Elvaan/Galka can continue wearing... meaning Haste is now the racial inequity/difference..
This situation is also present in other jobs and is not limited to RSE. e.g Galka playing redmage increasing MP well other races increase different stats using the same slot(Serket Ring for MP, or "other stat" Ring).
Although this will not make jobs unusable, for any race, when "fine tuning" performance for end-game play, where equipment and Monsters become diverse, I thought it worth mentioning.
"Why do you need to raise your stat(s) to the same as another Race? Can't you just play the Race with your own style to be effective?" these are questions i can imagine being thought. I'm sure it would be "lovely" if the FFXI world were like this but in the reality of the game Tiamat(a notorious monster) double attacks with mighty strikes for 650-850 a hit unblocked (1300-1700 total), for a tank to be able to survive a freak occasion, where your ability timers and avoiding techniques are down, HP needs to reach 1600+(a common HP amount of Elvaan/Galka)... this corresponds to the above Paladin example. There are other situations with this same job that Elvaan/Galka low MP pool is highly undesirable in which case, the reverse, Elvaan/Galka utilizing equipment slots for MP gear will result in other races being more suited for this situation.

P.S. I play Hume PLD and wouldn't change to Elvaan/Galka if i could... so i'm not trying to discourage hume/tarutaru/mithra ... but I do think it worth mentioning in response to the "RSE will fix any race" impression you get from reading many job guides available. If it is thought the idea, in some form, is worth adding to guides do so... If deemed complete rubbish, or believe it too controversial or misleading please do not. --Wollow 08:25, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

support job[]

do we really need these support job pages and links to them? cuz lets be honest, youve gotta be pretty stupid to not be able to look at the job pages and work it out for yourself. Seems like someone was just bored and came up with this to kill time or its a way to get the number of pages on the wiki up.--Millionsknives 22:45, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

We need to choose a consistancy with the support job choice, either all the jobs have the link or none of them, I personally say take them down, you can just as easily look at the jobs main page.--AaronDemoncia 16:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)