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Shadow Lord[]
Pretty sure it was decided the Shadow/Dynamis Lord is NOT a demon. --Jopasopa 15:28, 28 September 2006 (EDT)
Are Demons Really Beastmen?[]
Based on the info given in this article, and my own knowledge about Demons in FFXI, I think it's safe to say that Demons are not beastmen. When you consider the fact that it is strongly implied that Demons are not even of Vana'diel in the first place, I really don't think this puts them in the same category as Beastmen in any way. I mean sure they're sentient creatures that served under the Shadow Lord, but I still don't think that's enough to qualify them as beastmen. And the fact that they also use the job system doesn't make them beastmen either, as undead, Fomors, and Aerns also use it and that doesn't make them beastmen, does it? Besides, Demons even have their own seals: Kindred's Seal. So I think that Demons should not be classified as Beastmen when they clearly are not. –Anson 00:09, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
- Goblins and Moblins follow the job system, and they are Beastmen. They also can drop Kindred's Seals. --Charitwo 09:32, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
- According to SE they are. --Gahoo 09:38, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
- Well yes Goblins and Moblins do drop kindred's seals and they obviously aren't Demons, but all the mobs that drop beastmen seals aren't beastmen, so I really don't see what that proves. And as for the info on the website, quite frankly, I'm not sure if I'm willing to trust info on a section of the website that has not been updated since FFXI's North American release. For all we know them being referred to them as "beastmen" may have just been a translational error. But in any case, Demons do not seem to qualify as Beastmen in any way. Beastmen are simply monstrous sentient creatures that reside and originate in Vana'diel. Demons, on the other hand, are creatures from Hell or the netherworld or whatever that were brought into Vana'diel by the Shadow Lord, so I really do not see how they can be classified as "beastmen" if they aren't even from Vana'diel to begin with. –Anson 22:03, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
- Apparently I'm not alone in my opinion. Just now I was looking at the Bestiary article, and Demons aren't even listed under the same category as Beastmen. In fact Demons are listed under a category of the same name along with some other types of monsters (although I'm thinking that "Kindred" would be a better name for those types of monsters). –Anson 02:37, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
- I don't think it's a translation error either. And as for your trusting, it's an official statement by SE classifying them as Beastmen. I'm wondering why you would argue against that. --Charitwo 11:01, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
- SE calls them beastmen. That's the end of the story. SE also defines beastmen (same link) - differently from you. As for the bestiary page - families are classified there based mainly on how the ecosystems of Vana'diel. The demon family is intimidated by Demon Killer so they fit best in that box. --Gahoo 13:22, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
- Hey, I'm just saying that I cannot help but question the credibility of a section of a site that no one has even bothered to update since FFXI's U.S. release. And I could be wrong, but isn't the info in "The History of Vana'diel" section also a bit inaccurate? Now I haven't gotten through all the expansion missions and such, but based on minor spoilers that I've been hearing, I'm getting the impression that the origin of Vana'diel as it is told there (which I believe is also the origin of Vana'diel as it is known to the majority of its non-beastmen inhabitants) is not entirely accurate. Because if that is the case, then I do not see why this could not also apply to Demons. And as for the possiblity of it being a translational error, when I said that I was referring to the fact that they are described as "beastmen" in their description, not that they are under the "The Beastmen Forces" category. And by the way, the only reason I think that they're listed under that category in the first place is because there wasn't any place else to put them, and also the category is called "The Beastmen Forces", and regardless of whether or not Demons are beastmen, they still fought on the same side as them. And don't think that they're incapable of making any translational errors either, for example: I have heard that Galka are simply said to be "all male" in the Japanese versions of their description, and not "genderless" as it is put in the English translated version. So with that in mind, I wouldn't rule out the possibility. –Anson 14:43, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
- I think the Beastmen should probably be considered to have a dual designation, one foot in the Beastmen group (sentient, cultured races who are not the 5 Races nor Zilart/Kuluu), one foot in the Demon group (since they are demons based on the technical classification system in the game). For the purposes of classification, they should remain in the Demon category because all the in game evidence indicates that is where they belong. For the purposes of written descriptions of what they are, they can be said to be demonic Beastmen though (even though they don't have a bestial component per se, like being half-turtle, half-bird or some ugly, ogrish humanoid). --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 17:33, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
- Hey, I'm just saying that I cannot help but question the credibility of a section of a site that no one has even bothered to update since FFXI's U.S. release. And I could be wrong, but isn't the info in "The History of Vana'diel" section also a bit inaccurate? Now I haven't gotten through all the expansion missions and such, but based on minor spoilers that I've been hearing, I'm getting the impression that the origin of Vana'diel as it is told there (which I believe is also the origin of Vana'diel as it is known to the majority of its non-beastmen inhabitants) is not entirely accurate. Because if that is the case, then I do not see why this could not also apply to Demons. And as for the possiblity of it being a translational error, when I said that I was referring to the fact that they are described as "beastmen" in their description, not that they are under the "The Beastmen Forces" category. And by the way, the only reason I think that they're listed under that category in the first place is because there wasn't any place else to put them, and also the category is called "The Beastmen Forces", and regardless of whether or not Demons are beastmen, they still fought on the same side as them. And don't think that they're incapable of making any translational errors either, for example: I have heard that Galka are simply said to be "all male" in the Japanese versions of their description, and not "genderless" as it is put in the English translated version. So with that in mind, I wouldn't rule out the possibility. –Anson 14:43, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
Because I hate when you get too much :'s, I won't use one. Anyway, what defines creatures in the Beast Strength Chart isn't anything spectacular. Kindred Demons aren't beastmen in that sense. You're not going to say that bats are birds, are you? Basically:
Beasts: Mammals that spend most of their time on the ground.
Lizards: Reptiles that aren't dragons.
Vermin: Insects, arachnids, presumably centipedes & millipedes.
Plantoids: Mobile plants and fungi.
Birds: Birds and creatures that spend most of their time flying but do not fall into other categories (such as vermin or dragons).
Aquans: Aquatic creatures.
Amorphs: SQUISHIES!
Arcana: Things that shouldn't be alive but are alive via magic and/or stuffs.
Undead: Things that should be dead but are living.
Dragons: This ones a bit hard... I would say winged reptiles but probably hydras and possible wivres go up here, but then again the Hydra seems to be a chimera and wivres possibly lizards (or chimeras), so they could have been dragons pre-chimeras. I would also say something about breath abilities, but then that would through raptors in here.
Demons: This is kinda hard. I would say "creatures from the underworld that don't fit other categories" or something to do with wings, but soulflayers screw things up. Seeing as how flayers are BLUs who couldn't resist the beast within, these guys could just be "sentient or demisentient evil doods" or just creatures of evilness.
Beastmen: Sentient, morphed animals (including people).
Luminians: Bio-Lumorians.
Luminions: Techno-Lumorians.
Empty: Creatures of the Emptiness.
Other: Other
And that's for the Beast Strength Chart. Beastman races are, hmmm... Sentient non-people animals that can be called an individual/independent race/force? This would be why stuff like Ahriman/imps are not considered beastman races and are typically associated with another race (Ahriman - Kindred Demons, bugbears - Moblins, imps - Black Coffin Fomors, etc.) --Joped 19:03, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
In addition to weaknesses on the chart, Hecatomb Wave is listed in-game as being from the Demon family, not Beastmen like Bomb Toss is. --Dewin 03:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
resistance to lullaby[]
despite the fact kindred are weak to light, they will almost always resist the lullaby spell. the black magic spell Sleep, however, will not be resisted. Ayrlie 22:02, 12 May 2007 (CDT)