I think some of these avatars are in the wrong section.... Diabolos and Fenrir are not both Terrestrial. AFAIK, there can only be one avatar element per avatar type. I believe Fenrir is a Celestial avatar (I mean.. he is all about the moon right? And the moon is celestial..). I think we could use some confirmation on the accuracy of this page. Ganiman 11:49, 1 Feb 2006 (PST)
According to a cutscene in Darkness Named, there are 5 Terrestrial Avatars ("the five powerful gods born of Vana'diel and entrusted to protect her"): Phoenix ("the fiery bird of resurrection"), Diabolos ("the ruler of dreams"), Fenrir ("the guardian of the moon"), Carbuncle ("the bringer of rainbows"), and Bahamut ("the conqueror of the skies"). --Valyana 14:44, 1 Feb 2006 (PST)
Yes, from what I've seen Valyana is right. The Terrestial Avatars number 5 and are listed in the Promathia storyline. All are visited somewhere in the story, it's just that Phoenix & Bahamut play the biggest parts, whereas everyone else gets a brief guest appearance. They are all non-elemental, but some have affiliations with an element (e.g. Carbuncle- Light, Fenrir- Darkness, Diabolos- Darkness), which is not the same as *being* an element.
There is a chart of Vana'diel's constellations which shows many constellations, most of which consist of the Celestial Avatars. All of their constellations have the alpha star (brightest star) colored the color of their element and named. There are some other constellations, like Cactuar and Behemoth and Vulture, but none of them have named and colored stars on the chart. From the chart, we can see the Celestial Avatar of Light is Alexander and the Celestial Avatar of Darkness is Odin. They are the proper avatars of those elements, even though they do not appear in the game (...yet). The Celestial Avatars are the avatars of the elements, the Terrestrial Avatars are avatars of some aspect of Vana'diel.
Here I'll link up the picture so you can see. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 17:39, 1 Feb 2006 (PST)
Proposal to remove NM info from avatar pages
Perhaps we should remove the NM information from each avatar's page and add a link to 'Avatar Prime' for that information. I don't see a reason to have two pages with NM info for the same NM; it also makes editting easier, since we won't have to update two seperate pages. -- Yen 16:42, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
Hey, at one point in this article it states that Altana was the one to divide the original mothercrystal into five parts to keep Promathia alive. Which cut scene is the source for this, and what was she protecting Promathia from? It's been a while since I watched my CoP cut scenes and some of my memories have gotten... jumbled.
- I do not recall if it was indicated earlier, but it is stated in the CS you get after defeating Promathia. --Toksyuryel 14:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Pictures of Summons
The picture of Fenrir is somewhat blurry, and a replacement might be appropriate. Also, the picture of Phoenix might want to be reconsidered, though I suppose nothing fits much better. If Phoenix actually appeared in a form other than the blade, it might be something to change. The only other thing that could fit would be a picture of a Phoenix feather (at the Crystal or Blueblade Fell). --Altimo 16:33, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
I agree can we get a new fenrir picture please-Heretic mkII@ffxi 21:43, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
Alexander & Odin
Now we know that Alexander and Odin appear in the Aht Urhgan missions shouldn't we add entries for them on this page like the other avatars? -Heretic mkII@ffxi 01:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Avatar appearances in WotG
With the introduction of the "Wings of the Goddess" addon we might consider the addition of Cait Sith and Atomos to the existing Avatars... --Demii-chan 13:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Are we sure Cait Sith is an avatar? She doesn't have the same "glow" other avatars have.
Well... That's something we need to find out... I hope that the continuation of the WotG missions reveals more about the two characters. And btw... do Bahamut, Odin or Alexander possess this "divine glow" too?
Not as far as I know. Neither does (Dark) Ixion from what I've seen, though he's missing on this article altogether --Elvaron 13:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The problem with Cait Sith and Atomos, and Dark Ixion too, is that they fit none of the descriptions. Remember, Celestial avatars are sleeping gods, partly awakened by the summoners who call upon them. Terrestrial Avatars are numbered to 5, all known and are either active or dead. Neither of the WotG "Avatars" fit in any of the categories in a direct manner. They're not sleeping so they're not Celestial Avatars, and we know they're not from the 5 Terrestrial Avatars. The only possibility I could see for them to fit anywhere would be that they're failed Terrestrial avatars or they're their own type of Avatar altogether, one previously undiscovered by people of Vana'diel. --Khundes 18:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
This info has no source, testing or evidence cited. Moved from the main page to here:
Their Race Attribute Ranking can be estimated as follows:
HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHR A A D D D D A D D
This wiki refers to areas, characters, etc., by official names. For example, we don't have Category: Lizzies or Category: Gobs. Considering there is even a disclaimer about how "Celestial Avatars" is not the real name, the section should be renamed with the official name, "Six Sleeping Gods". Also, Alexander and Odin are independent of the sleeping gods and terrestrial avatars. This is shown in a number of ways:
- They aren't sleeping in protocrystals.
- Carbuncle does not require their power in Waking the Beast.
- The Sleeping Gods are six in number, as shown in every cutscene regarding the avatars in question.
- Odin and Alexander do not rebel against Carbuncle in Waking the Beast, showing their independence.
- Odin and Alexander are never called sleeping gods or terrestial avatars, both of which have defined numbers (6 sleeping gods and 5 terrestrial avatars). Their in-game epithets are "The Dark Rider" and "The Blessed Radiance".
I have created a separate category for Alexander and Odin, and renamed the "Celestial Avatars" section to the official name. Unless there is in-game text to support Alexander or Odin being Sleeping Gods, we cannot label them as such, especially when all in-game text refers to 6 Sleeping Gods.
I waited until after completing Waking the Beast and all avatar quests to make this change.--Blue Donkey Kong 22:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
- It is heavily implied that the shattered protocrystal in bearclaw pinnacle belonged to Odin. Without actually finishing the final ToAU missions I cannot say with certainty anything further, but I've long theorized that the astral candescences are shards of Alexander's former protocrystal. As they are the only two other avatars to appear in the sky, which is the origin of the term "celestial avatar", it is highly likely that they WERE "sleeping gods" that managed to wake up for some unspecified reason. This would make the two phrases distinct, where "celestial avatar" refers to the 8 that appear in the sky while "sleeping gods" only refers to the 6 that still have intact protocrystals. --Toksyuryel 00:28, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
- The shattered object in Bearclaw Pinnacle is magicite. See the following excerpt from "Where Messengers Gather":
Prishe: Woah! Get a load of this place!
Prishe: Why did the beastmen bring that chunk of magicite here?
Prishe: The poor bastard who found it woulda been pretty messed up, I'd say...
Prishe: I s'pose you wouldn't know too much about that particular chunk of magicite.
Prishe: The Emptiness sealed within made it unique.
Prishe: You've heard about the magicite known as the Star of Tavnazia, right? And I bet you know that a piece of it was stolen and sold to Bastok before the war, too, right?
Prishe: Well, an allied expedition came here to the Northlands thirty years ago bearing that chunk of magicite. Its members were poisoned by the voice of darkness sealed within the stone.
Prishe: "Give in to thy desires." "Return to thy true self..."
Prishe: That voice beckons to the darkness within us, over and over...
Prishe: That's why the members of the expedition went a little loopy. You can't really blame them, though.
Prishe: I mean, you would, too, if the Twilight God was whispering in your ear!
I reread your post, Toksyuryel, and looked at the Stellar Map. After seeing that, I do agree that Celestial Avatars should not be synonymous with Sleeping Gods. This constellation chart shows where the term "celestial" comes from in Celestial Avatars: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/File:Stellar_map.png Although the term "Celestial Avatar" is not used in-game, this constellation chart does show a relationship between the Sleeping Gods, the Dark Rider, and the Iron Colossus, in that they are all identified in stellar constellations. I hadn't particularly considered the Stellar Chart in determining the legitimacy of grouping Alexander/Odin with the 6 Sleeping Gods, and the main page now accommodates all methods of grouping and adequately explains why Alexander and Odin can be considered celestial avatars.--Blue Donkey Kong 00:42, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
Avatar origin stories
In the links section at the bottom, the 6 original avatars all have an "origin story" from the Vana'diel Tribune except Leviathan. His story can be found at http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Leviathan,_Guardian_God_of_the_Sea , but it is not linked at the bottom of the avatar page like the stories of the other 5...maybe this should be fixed?
For anyone curious, Atomos is confirmed an avatar in The Hunter Ensnared. Atomos's epithet, "Fearsome Destroyer of Time", is taken from Cait Sith's dialogue when she addresses Atomos. Atomos's description is taken from its own description of its function to Cait Sith.--Blue Donkey Kong 07:03, February 21, 2011 (UTC)