Talk:Puppetmaster/Archive1

Weaknesses
How about "all" of PUP?.
 * Automaton is the main focus for most of PUP.

- No, "MOST" Sye

Disrupt. With a U. Chernabog 07:10, 11 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Automatons have a tendency to weaponskill at random, which can disript skillchains if the owner doesn't Retrieve them before hand.

Other stuff
Hiachi 21:28, 24 April 2006 (PDT) : Does anyone know where and how to tell what your automaton's current burden (from Maneuver usage) is?

I know that when SE releases the PUP's AF this will probably help us find out, but at the moment, does anyone know or have theories of if and which player (not automaton) stats affect automaton performance? - Hiachi 16:45, 2 May 2006 (PDT)


 * But even current AF gives weird stat boosts that don't particularly help the job at all... Chernabog 06:15, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

Charisma?
I think Charisma may have an effect on something. Probably the duration of the maneuver abilities. I noticed that my Charisma with this job was equal to my Strength as an Elvaan Pup/Mnk. And if you think about it, it does make sense when you think of what a puppet master job actually is: A wandering performer.

mix match
can you mix/match heads/frams from differnt upgrades? --uberfuzzy 20:56, 22 May 2006 (PDT)

While the frame determines what abilities and spells, base stats, and base capacities of the automaton, the head only modifies capacities; and yes you can combine any head with any frame, as long as your current attachments will fit them, or if you've removed all the attachments first. -- Hiachi 08:23, 23 May 2006 (PDT)

Actually, the head does not just modify the capacity of the Automaton, but its AI (behavior) as well. The Valoredge head will make the Automaton follow the mob around and stay at close range; the Stormwaker head will keep the Automaton at a distance; and the Sharpshot head is a little of both (since it is capable of both long and short-range combat), I'm told. --Chacharu 01:06, 23 June 2006 (PDT)

From what I've seen, an automaton with the Stormwaker frame, no matter the head, will both follow and stand still when fighting a monster, depending where you are when you initially use Deploy. - Hiachi 15:44, 9 July 2006 (PDT)

Automaton Item Storage
I haven't tried PUP much (just got it to 8 so that when I do start seriously leveling it I can jump straight into the lv8 robe set), but I remember reading somewhere your automaton holds all attachments in it's own inventory. If this is true, does it also hold onto all heads/frames? What it it's inventory space (how many slots)? And what else can it hold? Chernabog 07:33, 9 July 2006 (PDT)

Your heads and frames are never in your 'normal' inventory, they're only viewable under Equipment > Automaton. However, because you can buy attachments from the AH/NPC/etc, they start out in the normal inventory. But, after you trade them to Tateeya, they will no longer take up space in your inventory and only show up under Equipment > Automaton when you have PUP as your main or secondary job. - Hiachi 09:28, 9 July 2006 (PDT)


 * {Sweets}! I guess I have no reason not to get all the automaton attachments, heads and frames then. Chernabog 06:11, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

Please tell me PUP don't suck
Ok, so from everything I've read so far, PUP seem to suck... C combat skill as their highest (and h2h at that, with no martial arts or kicks or whatnot to help), and automatons not being the most contolable things (feel free to correct me on that), I fail to see why one would have a PUP in a PT... Even soloing you can get screwed. BST can release and charm new pets or use jugs. PUP, if your automaton dies before your 20 minute timer is up you're screwed! So, can someone please explain how I am wrong, and how PUP can be kick ass, cause I don't see it yet. Chernabog 06:15, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

Firstly, according to SE, PUP has lower skills because it is a pet job - to balance the job. Secondly, it wasn't meant to be the kind of pet job that BST is, nor DRG....: A DD job in which both the PUP and the Automaton are to deal an about equal amount of damage. - Hiachi 08:48, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

You can really see the different amount of work SE put into each Job. Most of the dev time spent on the Expansion, at least for the jobs, went to BLU. SE went through, deciding which spells to select from each mob (and which ones not to select), and set up a pretty complex balancing system (the limited allotment points, the spell combos giving job traits). COR got a lot of work on its Job Abilities, but SE seems to have forgotten about the equipment (as well as forgetting they said the Hexagun was its primary weapon type, and the game has a grand total of 1 Hexagun in it, and its high level to boot). PUP seems to have been poorly developed. It got decent development for the first 20 levels, but beyond that it seems there was no adequate testing. The Job does need a lot of work. Adding more Puppet models and attachments should help facilitate that, but there is the fundamental issue of PUP not being able to pull its own weight in parties. From what I've read, the general consensus is PUP was poorly planned, poorly implemented, and needs quite a bit of work. Once that's done though, it can be a really cool Job. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 00:54, 12 July 2006 (EDT)

PUP definitely looks like an afterthought if you compare the Attachments list to the maximum elemental capacities: There's not enough Attachments to even reach the maximum capacity for most elements, making me wonder when they will add more of them, or maybe even consider allowing us to have two of every attachment for more focused customization - Hiachi 14:32, 12 July 2006 (EDT)

Another question about attachments
Is there a point to trading the NPC more than 1 of the same attachment? I haven't tried (don't want to waste the gil to find out if they'll even take it), but was wondering the point to the attachments stacking... Seems pointless to have them stack if you'll only ever need 1 of each. Chernabog 04:22, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

I wondered about this as well, but apparently its only because they attachments are crafted in stacks. At the moment, you cannot give more then one of the same Attachment to your Automaton. I really wish we could, both because that would allow a more focused customization, as well as make use of the thussofar unusable elemental capacities of the Automaton gear (Such as having 5 spaces for attachments in a particular element, but the highest charge you can get is 4 -- there's gotta be more Attachments on the way) - Hiachi 14:24, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

"You must have Automaton Attachments equipped for your Automaton to receive any effects." is a little false -- When you use a Maneuver, not only does your Automaton's Attachments activate and/or become more powerful, the Automaton receives a stat bonus for the stat(s) associated with the currently active Maneuvers (EX: If you have two Water Maneuvers and one Thunder Manuever active, your Automaton has a +2 on MND and a +1 on DEX) - Hiachi 20:44, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

Manipulating the Automaton
Any idea if a particular combination (and possibly the order itself of the Maneuvers could affect this as well) of Automaton Maneuvers might create actions that the Automaton would not otherwise do? I've seen other PUP's Automatons casting Tier II nukes in Garlaige Citadel or Tier I nukes in Qufim Island, but I can never seem to get my own to cast anything beyond enfeebling and the occasional healing magic. I'll try to experiment with different combinations of Manuevers, but I'd like to know if someone's already done this and found any positive results before I get going - Hiachi 14:30, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

I actually found a good use for PUP!
Low level subbing! Starting off at lv1 is a pain in the butt. Subs usually don't off much other than a little HP or MP, maybe a stat or two, and sometimes a spell (/WHM Cure ftw!). But has anyone else tried subbing PUP? Automatons don't get gimped by being a sub, they are at their full lv1 strength potential. It's almost like duoing, but you get full xp! I did this to take SAM up to lv4 and it was fun. When I did this I didn't have any attachments yet, but afterwards I went out and bought them right away. I'm going to level DRK now with PUP sub and I can't wait to see how the attachments help. ^^ Chernabog 08:41, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

I really don't see why people dislike Puppetmasters. C rating in Hand to Hand skill, therefore they must stink, right? When you invite a PUP you're inviting 2 "people" not just 1. I like having a PUP in the party the only down side is that the puppet will sometimes interrupt a skillchain but that can be avoided when the PUP uses a macro.--Perim 09:13, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

I can't outright say PUP suck; I've never PTed with one yet (which in itself says something about how ppl view PUP). I don't think they can be as good DDs or support as some other Jobs, but I still have to experience it for myself to say for sure. What I do know is it looks like it stinks. It also looks boring if taken much past 30. No new JTs or JAs. The new AF will help, but still a bit of a gap between 30 and 52 (yes, the new animator at 40...). I'm skeptical. I do however want to level PUP until at least 37 (I want to get all jobs to 37... I just want to do PUP sooner than some others). Chernabog 10:43, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

So I finally got a chance to PT with a PUP today
I still say the Master shouldn't melee. At least this one shouldn't've. Automaton was doing more damage, sometimes double the master. He was using the Valoredge frame and head. Maybe if the Master used some dif gear... I'll try it out when I lv up PUP, but so far it's looking like PUP/BRD staying on the back lines for me. Master didn't do enough dmg in my mind to justify meleeing (ie: to justify giving the mob TP). I'd like to see another PUP who goes for more of a dmg build though. I think they do have potential, but not quite there yet. Maybe more dmg stuff in higher levels. This was in a qufim pt. I think if I went the dd route I'd sub RNG post 20 for the acc boost to make up for the lower skill. P.S. Please check out the Automaton Attachments page and add any info you know. Chernabog 12:17, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Guard, Throwing Skills
Can somebody confirm if these skills are [B/C] +, __, or -? After being accessible for 3 months, these should be easy to figure out precisely by now. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 10:53, 30 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Most ppl don't cap Guard or Throwing though. At least I don't know anyone with either capped on any job. Chernabog 04:09, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

Cap for a lvl 75 PUP in Throwing is 230 and Gaurd is 250. I have tried to update this info on the job listings. Laverna 08/12/06

Damage Dealt
I've been subbing Dark Knight on Puppetmaster for Attack Bonus and Last Resort and have been doing some pretty decent damage. I've seen lots of people complaining about the 'C' in Hand-to-hand, but my automaton more than makes up for it. My automaton and I put out a good deal of damage and rarely take hate from the tank (I only tend to get hate when using Last Resort). People pay too much attention to the big numbers and don't take the time to add up how much damage Puppetmasters are actually doing; 2 decent hits from my Hand-to-hand + 1 decent hit from the automaton's fist + 1 huge hit from ranged attack (if range frame) = large amount of damage. Combine that with the fact that my automaton and I can do our own Weaponskill and we have pretty good damage output. Puppetmaster also seems to have a good accuracy rating so most of my swings hit their mark.

--Cainsworld 15:12, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Wait until the mid-high level range and watch your acc drop. Chernabog 06:46, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

New guide
I've completed and posted a guide on Behaviour of the Stormwaker Frame. Looks like the Puppetmaster page itself is protected, so I'll stick the link here for an admin to add and everyone else to edit and reformat.

Weapon Skills
Based on this PUP cannot use any of the quested weapon skills. Is this correct? --Gahoo 15:11, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

Yep. That makes them the only Job unable to get a quested weaponskill. SE should just give them a quested weaponskill for the Automaton (like the same category Chimera Ripper is in). Maybe they should have PUP use an Automaton of Trials too :D --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 20:00, 5 September 2006 (EDT)