Talk:Item Template

Pricing variation
There is a variation in prices even for the fixed price merchants. It depends on your fame with the town where you make the purchase. I don't know if the fame issue affects Guild pricing - we'd need to test that out. So even on a fixed price item there is a range of prices. For example you can buy Distilled Water for 12gil if you're at fame 1 but at max fame in Windurst it only costs me 10gil a pop.

The truly important piece of missing information is at what Conquest position the item is visible. Certain items only appear when the city in question is in 1st place, others when the city is in 1st or 2nd, and the rest always apear. These items might need a Minimum Conquest Rank colum for the merchants in the cities affected by Conquest ranking. --Strangeone 11:43, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

I think you will find that most (all?) Standard Merchants have conquest information. --Gahoo 12:27, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

We're also working on putting conquest availability on the individual item pages, as well as the merchant pages. --Chrisjander 15:10, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

Statistics Change
I suggest a change in the statistics block to something similar to the way it was before the March 19, 2006 change. Back then it was in a more website-like format than it is today (which resembles the FFXI format). I say this because, while that format works well for FFXI and its limited space, it's not really appropriate for a website with plenty of space to spare.

Here's an example:

Statistics
Slot: Category: Type: Category:

Defense: <#> Damage: <#> Delay: <#>
 * Effect
 * Note: Notes on effect.


 * Effect
 * Sub-effect


 * Latent Effect: effect
 * Latent Trigger: trigger

Jobs: WAR, MNK, WHM, BLM, RDM, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, SAM, NIN, DRG, SMN, BLU, COR, PUP (or All Jobs) Races:  (or All Races) Level to Use:

Element: Storage: <#> Placement: Top, Floor, or Wall Dimensions: <#> x <#>
 * Strength: <#>
 * Moghancement: Moghancement:

Tags: (or None)

Damage Per Second: <#.##> TP Per Hit: <#.#> Description: description

Simply remove any sections that don't apply (such as Defense for weapons). I believe this format makes it easier to find the information you're looking for and allows for easier implementation of Hidden and Latent effects. The only real problem I see with this format is that it's yet another change and that means that the pages with the previous version would have to be changed.

I personnally think this format is ugly as sin. I know that my BF feels that way too. In fact he was the one to first showed me it and I agree with him on it. The way Rixie and he have done the statistics in all of the things they have updated which is beyond a significant portion is pretty close to perfection. I think that you can show the Latent Effects at the bottom of the statistics in a notes section. This whole format is just sooo huge. We dont need it to take the whole page, make it short and sweet. Why make something big when you can make it small. But that is just my opinion and so far you show little reguard toward mine or anyone else's opinions. --Nynaeve 17:13, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Th reason this particular version looks so huge is because it has stat slots for every type of item. When you remove the things that don't apply it becomes much smaller. Personally I think the current way is "ugly as sin," however that's a matter of opinion. ~ Karuberu 17:31, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Its true, it is a matter of opinion. But I have seen yours even with what isn't necessary cut down on pages and it is still huge in comparison. It just seems like a lot of space for a small bit of info. It doesn't look neat and official at all. I admit, I am a neat freak and like things to look nice. But that really isnt a bad thing in this case. I think your opinion should be heard on this and I am glad you finally took our advice and put it up for discussion instead of just editing things using your template without consulting the community as a whole. I just hope that whatever the majority opinion is, you will conform and use whatever the template will be instead of what you want it to be in the future. I think order is important and discord only leads to confusion. I wouldn't have been so bitchy to you if you just showed that you cared what others thought and what was best for the website as a whole to begin with. Its great to have opinions and want change, but until you show that you want to be taken seriously, you can't be.

My opinion stands on the purposed template change. I do think its unattractive and verbose when that section needs not to be. I do think that for Latent Effects et al should have a small section under the current statistics in the template since there is no place for them currently in the template. Sides adding something for that, I dont think it needs to be changed. --Nynaeve 17:44, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Nynaeve, please keep all of your comments related to the topic. If you have any problems with me, please use my talk page.

Another problem with the current template is that it does not provide a template for furnishings or misc items that only have a description and no statistics listed in FFXI (such as food). My proposed template includes these and allows for other item templates to be added onto it.

I'd also like to point out that the current template is redundant if the article includes a picture (aside from any additional notes you apply). ~ Karuberu 18:41, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

I will in the future, but my opinion on the template would be the same whether it was you or anyone else who posted it.

In the case of Furnishings and Foods: Although it is not shown, If you look at most of the things that have already been done, such as Mahogany Bed, Linen Cloth or Tomato Soup, they have a slightly different template format than a regular item that is equipped. They are considered different things and not to be grouped together. While the Furniture pages do need to be updated a bit via the crafting synth parts, they are as a whole pretty good. I know for a fact that the Food pages have been agonized over and perfected down to what color to use for positive and negative effects. I do notice that when you search for template you dont see one for either the furniture or the food and maybe that needs to be put to right since they both follow slightly different patterns than the origianl item template. Rest assured that those pages have been considered and if you notice they are a bit different and therefor I do not think grouping them together on one template would be wise. I think this Item Template is pretty much just for the equippable items such as gear and weapons - not for furniture or food and that it would be best just to create seperate templates for each of those since the information you put in the statistical data differs so greatly.

As for redunancy - A lot of the pages do not have pictures yet, while hopefully they will eventually ALL have pictures, I don't see the redundancy as a problem. It is what it looks like in game. It is an effeciant use of space and if you havent noticed, this website keeps overexceeding its bandwith time and again so why stress it out by adding more than you need to? --Nynaeve 19:12, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

I concur with some points on one side, and some on the other here. It's my opinion the item pages for armor and weapons look neater and easier to read (as they are already in a familiar FFXI format) as they are done by the current item template. So far most people at the time of the template change agreed that it was a much cleaner look. This could change as it is discussed, I'm just mentioning the history of the original change. I agree that an additional line under the DPS and TP bit for Latent/Hidden effects would be beneficial, but the overall look of the actual shown statics I think should stay as is. As for Food/Furniture/other items, I think an additional template should be created, since I don't think we've ever suffered from multiple templates, just with BLU Spell Template and the regular Spell Template. Adding too much for someone to remove is a bit silly, when we could just supply a different template. I dislike the suggested change because someone new to the site would need to search thru the visually unfamiliar format you have to find the information they need, while the previous format they already recognize from the game, and know what all the info means. Any unfamiliar terms are quickly getting links to pages explaining them. That was really the reason for the previous version, to have a visually familiar format for people looking at an item to recognize without having to rely on the picture, or searching thru a strange format. Speaking of making other templates, by my logic, this page would actually have to be copied to a Weapons/Armor Template, and the template for just regular, non-weapons, non-food, non-furniture item template would go here. Does this help clarify my opinion? --Chrisjander 23:02, 6 June 2006 (PDT)