Talk:Monk Guide by Gisselle

Welcome to my Monk Guide. I am happy for any input i get and i am open to suggestions. --Gisselle 10:29, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

I know you'd still not recommend it, but it might be worth mentioning that /DRG also gives Attack Bonus. --Chrisjander 13:43, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

Done --Gisselle 12:47, 25 August 2006 (EDT)

Sorry Teven, but i edited your changes out again mostly. I completely disagree on the /sub DRK. Your healers have better things to do than taking care of a suicidal monk, and imho thats what you are suggesting. It will draw you hate for sure, and you go down in a rush. No thanks. On the Fenrir's Stone, well, its only useful for the purpose you said at nighttime, which makes it pretty useless, since the monster you are tanking will not ask you if the daytime just suits you. --Gisselle 07:08, 2 September 2006 (EDT)

Have you considered the lvl 30 rare/ex Boreas Cesti off Kirata? --Drinian 21:42, 3 September 2006 (EDT)

Well, they are "usable", it is not a bad choice. They are a bit faster than Republic Knuckles, they miss the accuracy and the attack though. So i would rather stick with the Republics. They have the same damage as Republics, so the speed would be the only argument, and the difference is not really making them a good upgrade. Impact Knuckles 2 levels later have more damage and accuracy and str. So they are clearly better. So you would get a weapon slightly worse than Republics for 2 levels, since you get Impacts at 32. I really do not think it is worth camping an NM. Btw: i completely disregarded the added elemental damge since it is unreliable and not making a real difference. --Gisselle 01:26, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Some changes were made by Deft, i comment on them here and why i changed stuff back: --Gisselle 14:43, 27 September 2006 (EDT)
 * Cross Counters are one of the best weapons in the game, depending on situation might even be prefered to Destroyers
 * It is my opinion that the use of a Peacock Charm is debatable, in my opinion i would stick to the Spike Necklace most of the time.
 * on the Chivalrous Chain - well Defts got some nerves deleting my comments out of my guide
 * same for Triumph Earring, Scorpion Harness, Temple Cyclas, Byakko's Haidate
 * on the chi blast gear i took up the comment from Defts and put the comment for the boost macro in the first sentences.

Eh, definately look into Strike Subligar as a new alternative for legs at 60. They cover a monk's legs and give "Kick Attacks"+3 and Evasion+3 ^^; they match Scorpion Harness quite nicely in my opinion. Just to mention it... Fenrir's Earring is nice too endgame, considering the +10 attack during daytime is good. ~Plubion PS. On the topic of Boreas Cesti, it's very reliable, actually, considering the effect goes off 100% of the time and is nice if say your hitting the monster for low damage.

I put the stike subligar in the guide, but rather to prevent people from jumping on them. Kick attacks +3 will by no way outdamage the Republic Subligars. So its all still the same old for us ^^. btw.... Boreas Cesti - anyone wishing to go through the pain of camping this NM to get cesti which you should use for just one level - go ahead, have fun. But a weapon for just a level is no material worth it in my opinion. Since the topic comes up again and again, i guess i will put them in with a strong advice against them (the time you camp these you can level 3 levels, and after even one they are obsolete) something like that... --Gisselle 23:25, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I must say, I however do own a pair of Strike Subligar, and they make quite a difference in damage output. If you have enough attack gear at this point, adding in a 3% chance of an extra hit is much more useful. The thing with this, as I learned from my pld friend, is the rule of diminishing returns. I'm geared with +45 attack and adding in 5 more wouldn't raise my damage considerably. So instead, I choose the extra attack with enhanced damage from kung fu shoes ^^; ~Plubion

I got a few comments. i have boreas cesti and the additional effect is 100%, which means every punch you do 1-6 more dmg (it is alot for DoT). its definetly best weapon from 30-38(40 tourney patas?) Also about blu as sub job. have you ever tryed or seen it yourself? i do ballista alot and theres quite a few mnk/blu with god gear (big def) when you put cocoon up your def jumps to like 600 (not confirmed but high enough for everyone to hit him frequently 30) + he had ethereal earring which let me him get mp from getting hit and it worked great. It's probably good for other things where you need big def (tanking lamia 13 for example) so yeah thats my opinion, if JP pro mnks use it in ballista its definetly not an "/em laughs" sub job. Hise 16:02, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Boreas Cesti
Ok, since it is still coming up, i make a seperate section to discuss them. They have to be compared to Impact Knuckles, the level 32 weapon of choice. I think we all agree, that they have to be better than these, or the camping of the NM will not be worth it. After all, then you would use the Boreas only 2 levels.

Advantages of Boreas: +0-7 wind damage, faster.

Advantages of Impact Knuckles: 2 more base damage, +1 Str, +3 Acc, 0.3% more tp/hit

I do not use any 3rd party software, so i can not parse them. But the statistics are pretty clear in my opinion. In the very best case Boreas are equal to Impact, and for me that does not qualify Boreas over Impact, and even less makes it worth camping an NM. An NM by the way which can not be taken down solo with a lvl 30 monk. You need a higher level job or help. Then you will spend hours in Beaucedine Glacier. My opinion is to use Impact. To go into detail: tp and speed about cancle each other out. Base damage and str are about equal to the wind damage. leaves the advantage of +3 Acc on Impacts. If anything is more advantageous for Boreas, then it will not be more than these +3 Acc. So whichever angle you take to look at this issue, there will be no big advantage for Boreas. Impact Knuckles are easy to get, since they drop from Mee Deggi the Punisher, which is farmed for Ochiudo's Kote, so they are usually available for a sensible price in the auction house. --Gisselle 11:04, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Heh, but there's just something cool about Enspell effects ^^ --Chrisjander 11:18, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Lol, but yes, they seem to fascinate people. Ah, and i found a use for the Boreas Cesti: Any level 30 cap situation where you want to go as monk. Probably the best weapon for these cases --Gisselle 17:05, 4 December 2006 (EST)

The NM for them doesn't seem so bad, since all it drops is this weapon. Rare/ex means people wouldn't camp it unless they were using it, and with an approx respawn of 1-2hours, it managable for friends to help an aspiring mnk. --Chrisjander 20:27, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Just want to weight in here; hands down, best weapon all the way to the cross-counters has to be Hydro Claws +1- if you can find them. Make sure you have Kilo Pumps though. The additional effect doesn't go off as often as I would like, but it should happen at least once every other fight; when it DOES go off though, it usually does between 30-50 damage (I've seen it do 50 a couple times, never higher, that's probably the cap). As a plus, they have the same damage rating as the Impact Knuckles but less delay. +1 STR isn't much at all, and +3 acc isn't really that much either. No need for Boreas Cesti either, these are level 30. --Toksyuryel 20:55, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Well, i dare to differ. They are for sure not the best weapon up to cross counters. And i really do not like the idea of depending on a very occasional boost of damage. Monk is all about dealing damage over time, and every punched missed is a loss, and every damage on every punch counts. But, for the 2 levels from 30 to 32 they are an alternative. Their availability is very low, but if you want a replacement for your previous weapon, it is a good choice for sure. At 32 i still recomend Impact Knuckles. On the camping: probably you can get the Boreas Cesti drop pretty good, but its not a 100% drop. At these levels, think about how fast you gain a level. One jungle party and you are from 29 to 32 in one evening, if its a decent one. So... as i said, go for them if you want to go camping and have a unique weapon, but its far away from a recomendation by me. --Gisselle 11:08, 6 December 2006 (EST)

In any event even the NQ Hydro Claws are way better than the Boreas Cesti, even without kilo pumps, it's just not worth camping period. I would suggest removing them from the list and replacing them with the NQ Hydro Claws, which are generally available. And don't forget that even though some people will only use them for two levels in xp parties, there are lots of level 30 capped events that these will be very useful in. --Toksyuryel 12:33, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Blue Mage Sub?
I investigated a bit after Hise's comment, but i can neither confirm nor deny his claims on blue sub for ballista at this moment, and why it should be better than a ninja sub for example. Please discuss here --Gisselle 11:04, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Heya ^^ thanks for taking it in concern. i found this thread in monk forum Vegetto Ballista vids too bad i think he deleted the videos but he explained how mnk/blu works in the thread so maybe it helps out :D Hise 16:23, 9 December 2006 (EST)

Regarding /drg
If one has both the Wyvern Earring and the Wyvern Mantle, it is my belief that /drg is preferable until level 50 (at which point /war wins hands-down because of Double Attack). I have been doing this myself and it has been working out very well so far. --Toksyuryel 18:22, 6 December 2006 (EST)

Yes it works. Is it preferable over /war - in my opinion not. The damage output per single hit about the same with /war (due to stats), and you have the very valuable option of using provoke to keep something of the mages, like a slept link for example. This holds especially true for the levels you refer to, and above 50 /war wins as you stated. But anyhow, if you like to use it, get good results, just go ahead, it is just nothing i would recomend. --Gisselle 09:35, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Orphic Egg
If you happen to luck into a party with either a Bard or a Corsair, you can use the latent on this egg, which is much preferable to the Happy Egg. Toksyuryel 12:25, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Debateable, and not worth mentioning in my optionion. --Gisselle 08:58, 10 December 2006 (EST)

How is it debateable? All Happy Egg gives me is HP, and a very small amount at that. I would much rather have the Attack+ and Accuracy+ from Orphic Egg. But again that's only for parties including a bard or corsair. --Toksyuryel 14:54, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Many MNK weapons skills are based on VIT, and the Happy and Fortune Egg both give VIT +1. --Chrisjander 16:16, 10 December 2006 (EST)

What Chrisjander said and: at the early levels you often tank / back up tank. +1 Vit is worth a fortune for that. Later on you still get hit more often than not, and a little more vit is just worth it. (You will not evade anything....) With that Orphic Egg has a doubtful use in only special circumstances. Does not make it worth mentioning in my opinion. --Gisselle 18:24, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Gear Selections..
You mentioned that Byakko's Haidate wouldn't be real good for a Monk. Are you kidding me? It's easily the best legs piece in the game for Monk besides the Usukane legs, which is only because they have Attack+12 (2.5 Attack from the STR5). This is easily the best piece for legs as a Monk, not because of the haste, but because of the bulk of DEX that this gives, it provides 7.5 Accuracy. Which comes to another point to add.

You mention that Flame rings and Triumph Earrings are REALLY good pieces to get, but actually, they're some of the most worthless investments as a Monk. STR is NOT a big attribute towards Monk, since it doesn't hold much of a bar into our Melee AND WS (except for lower level like RF). For earring, you'll be much better off with 2x Mermans Earrings than 2x Triumph Earrings. Easily. Attack+12 vs STR+4 is a silly debate. The -Evasion is nothing, since you can just macro in Evasion+5 from Elusive Earring and Evasion Skill+3 from the Evasion Earring if you really need it at that time. Monk already has a nice STR to give them a huge cap to try and reach where STR won't effect Attack that much. It's only when you have about 700+ attack where STR might become a factor if your Accuracy is already top-notch while eating Meat(85-90% Accuracy is good).

You also didn't mention ANYTHING about Toreador's Ring or Mars's ring. The best rings for Monk in the game. Wayyy better than Rajas, since STR does not provide as much as a bonus as you might think. Hell, 2x Sniper will easily outperform 2x Flame rings. You're only getting 5 Attack out of both of those :/

There isn't any macros which provide equipment changes for certain situations either, which could help players understand that a Monk isn't about just engaging, there's more to the job since we're more based on our Equipment. Should also add in a Food section, so people at 75 aren't gimping themselves eating Meat while having H2H merits. Also a merit section would be nice. I already have one done in the Forums, so I might just do that in it's own separate guide.

I understand that you might have had your own experiences, but due to multiple parses from many other Monk's, having Accuracy and Attack will benefit you much more than STR will. The only exceptional STR piece is the Kirin's Osode, which provides a lot of it in bulk. Also helps you bring up your Attack cap more, so eating meat(Hedgehog/Porcupine Pie) will really boost you with Minuet/MadrigalorMarchorMinuet.

The Barbarossa's Zerehs are also not too good a piece, since STR+4 and VIT+4 WON'T benefit you much compared to DEX+15.

VIT won't make much of a difference in Weapon Skills either really, since the modifiers of a majority of Monk's weapon skills are very small like Asuran Fists for example. You won't be wearing a Genbu's Kabuto and Kirin's Osode for WS on Asuran. You would be wearing an Optical hat and a Shura Togi for WS. This is because they both have more accuracy, allowing you to land all 8 of those hits easier. Check your TP every time you WS, you'll notice that you don't land all those hits, and that's a reason why some of your WS's are low.

The ONLY reason why /NIN is a "good" subjob option is so you can have a better chain due to mages losing too much MP with healing a MNK/WAR. Other than that, /NIN sucks. It's strong for survivability, but has no Offensive attributes that contribute whatsoever.

That's my 2 cents on this guide~

-Cyprias

You know, normally I don't care much about stuff like this, but I have to speak up. I know there's the warning label at the top about it being a guide, but as such it should not be spoken as fact in some areas, such as:

- Kirin's Osode is not the flat best piece you can wear. Ever. Only in chi blasting is it the absolute most superior thing for the job. Does it do everything well? Yes. It is not the best.

- You do not need a scorpion harness. It's nice, but with the age of sushi roaming rampantly, it is far from being a deal breaker.

- As a guide, this should not even mention Vulcan's Ring, because it just plain doesn't exist.

- In your legs section: '75 Byakko's Haidate +15 DEX and +5% Haste is great, as the name says a rare/ex drop from Byakko. If your LS likes to give you some, you are lucky, but its still not one of the real good pieces for you.' WHAT!? Whatever you're on, please pass some of it to me...where in your head are you not convinced that 7.5 accuracy (the side effect of 15 DEX), 5% haste, and a nice little HP boost aren't all good things (nay, the best things) all to have on a single slot??

- Lastly, avoiding /NIN until 74 is a useless statement, as you have just misdirected the point of the /NIN subjob; having ichi/ni is not necessary for /NIN to do it's job, which is survival. It should be treated as such, regardless of level. I used it in the O/U airship battle, which is capped at 60. I would have died many times over if I hadn't had those ichi shadows. Your mainjob level does not impact your use of /NIN on Monk, since we do not care about nor get the real benefit of Dual Wield.

Edit (Norellicus 23:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)): Forgot one more...there is no debate. Peacock Charm at +10 Accuracy is and will always be better than +3 STR +3 DEX from Spike Necklace. Period. Your opinion on this matter is irrelevant. Math does not lie.

I'm not trying to nitpick, but for a premiere site that does nothing but provide information to the playerbase, this should be as refined as possible, and these are the things that require immediate tuning. Norellicus 23:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)