Category talk:Trial of the Magians

Requested Move
All those weapons and trials should be grouped under one category. --Seedling 09:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, especially considering that the system will be expanding with every update at least until year's end There's going to be a lot of it. --Volkai 13:13, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Talks
One Thing.... We need to use the same Layout for all the Trials, they all look different atm, I can start working on it tomorrow, hopefully someone else can help out Sigfreid Fenrir 01:35, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree to this, perhaps the very detailed table like on Daggers is best left for trials subpages. Maybe my compact format (just the weapon stages and stats) could be used as a smaller template for weapon stats on this main page. 22:13, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * 100% agree all the specific weapon pages should be laid out like the great katana one... its much easier to read and shows specific damage and augments for each weapon at every step of the process. the other system(ex. axe trials) is easy enough once u take a few minutes to get used to it but at first glance its very confusing User:Ankel 10:12 march 26, 2010

the second option seems to work like this, first you upgrade the weapon for that path is the only option, after that you have 2 options to follow and each has a set of four elements, fire, wind, lightning and light on one and ice, earth water, light on the other, now depending on the stat you want on you weapon you choose one or the other path, if you want str then choose the first since it has fire, want int choose the second because it has ice, dark is mp and light hp, next you have 4 options this is where you actually choose the right element for the disired stat, next is an upgrade with only one choice, after that you have two choices again, the first one is to max that stat and the substat? (whatever the name is) like for str you also get attack, for agi you get eva, for dex you get accuracy, the other choice removes the stats and adds and added effect wich is the counterpart of the stat, for str you get add. effect weakens attack, for dex you get add. effect lowers accuracy, for agi is -evasion etc. then is the final upgrade wich bost the last choice you made, most of the upgrades also modify delay and dmg. tried this with 6 types of weapons and all seem to work the same way. someone who speaks english please fix grammar and that, ty.Haggsatcarby 09:38, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

7 party alliance just killed Nocuous Weapon for dagger quest, and it does work for this quest. That should help on the glut of people who are going to want to do this quest. - MlrlOhki - 03:43MDT, March 23, 2010

Here's a rough sketch of the possible paths and ends of non-Relic/Mythic weapons. The actual value of the change is dependent on the weapon type, and it seems that the attribute values are constant across all one-handers and then constant across two-handers. Lecureuil 10:52, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Mixed Thoughts
Oh dear Altana, why... Poor monsters will be over-camped and oh joy the rejoice for trying to get a claim of one...several times... >.< Perhaps in 1 year or so I can try this out, without über frustration. ^^; Went thru them weapons in-game and some do pique my interest but ugh, trying to claim a NM over other people never was among my favorite things. Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 12:16, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, but what if you can party up and still have it count? Testing this now... --Valle 12:29, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

As I posted up above, yes, you can party and even alliance up and still get the NM kills required. Just finished killing Nocuous Weapon 3 times for Trial #2 in a 7 member alliance. MlrlOhki 06:43 MDT, Mar 23 2010

Aew /slaps his own face. that is a mighty good thing, silly me. I think I read that above but somehow the mind just didn't process it like it should have haha... Still asleep a bit I guess. It certainly does relieve a lot of the frustration but now I just hope the campaign battles would last longer. Too many PCs and NPCs killing everything and I just happened to use too many notes and an evaluation some time ago! 3 more days to wait /sigh... Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 13:09, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, thinking about it this quest will most likely mess things up for many for a long time either way. People wont join party/alliance, people will camp even normally camped NMs, they will also mass-murder monsters used often for getting exp/limit points, and the list goes on and on. Sure it will settle down a bit, but how much this will affect in a long run, I really feel like SE did not think this thru well enough. x.x Just my thoughts anyways. Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 17:38, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Axe Augments
I focused mainly on the end-result and not so much on stats getting TO the end-result. lol.

Trial 296 Axe: Chopper required. 297:Elements ...298:Fire Buffs ......299:Fire Buffs+1 .........300:DMG+7 STR+2 Delay-4 Attack+5 ............301:DMG+12 Delay-4 STR+4 Attack+12 .........302:DMG+7 Delay-4 STR+2 Pet: Attack+5 RAttack+5 ............303:DMG+12 Delay-4 STR+4 Pet: Attack+12 RAtttack+12 .........304:DMG+8 Weakens Attack+5 ............305::DMG+13 Weakens Attack+10 ...306:Wind Buffs ......307:WindBuffs +1 .........308:DMG+7 AGI+2 Delay-4 Evasion + 5 ............309:DMG+12 Delay-4 Evasion+12 .........310:DMG+7 Delay-4 AGI+2 Pet: Evasion+5 ............311:DMG+12 Delay -4 AGI+4 Pet: Evasion+12 .........312:DMG+8 ImparesEVA+5 ............313:DMG+13 Impares EVA+10 ...314: Lightning Buffs ......315:Lightning Buffs+1 .........316:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+2 ACC+3 ............317:DMG+12 Delay-4 DEX+4 ACC+8 .........318:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+2 Pet: ACC + 3 RACC + 3 ............319:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+4 Pet: ACC+8 RACC+8 .........320:DMG+8 Lowers Accuracy +5 ............321:DMG+13 Lowers Accuracy+10 ...322:Light Buffs ......323:Light Buffs+1 .........324:DMG+7 Delay-4 CHR+2 Mag EVA +5 ............325:DMG+12 Delay-4 CHR+4 Mag EVA +10 .........326:DMG+7 Delay-4 CHR+2 Pet: Mag EVA+5 ............327:DMG+12 Delay-4 CHR+4 Pet: Mag EVA+10 .........328:DMG+8 Lowers Magic EVA+5 ............329:DMG+13 Lowers Mag EVA+10 330:Elements ...331:Ice Buffs ......322:Ice Buffs+1 .........333:DMG+7 Delay-4 INT+2 Mag Attack Bonus +2 ............334:DMG+12 Delay-4 INT+4 Mag Attack Bonus +5 .........335:DMG+7 Delay-4 INT+2 Pet: Mag Attack Bonus +2 ............336:DMG+12 Delay-4 INT+4 Pet: Mag Attack Bonus +5 .........337:DMG+8 Lowers Magic Attack+5 ............338:DMG+13 Lowers Magic Attack+10 ...339:Earth Buffs ......340:Earth Buffs+1 .........341:DMG+7 Delay-4 VIT+2 Phys Damage taken -2% ............342:DMG+12 Delay-4 VIT+4 Phys Damage taken -5% .........343:DMG+7 Delay-4 VIT+2 Pet: Phys Damage taken -2% ............344:DMG+12 Delay-4 VIT+4 Pet: Phys Damage taken -5% .........345:DMG+8 Weakens Def +5 ............346:DMG+13 Weakens DEF+10 ...347:Water Buffs ......348:Water Buffs+1 .........349:DMG+7 Delay-4 MND+2 Mag Def Bonus +2 ............350:DMG+12 Delay-4 MND+4 Mag Def Bonus +5 .........351:DMG+7 Delay-4 MND+2 Pet: Mag Def Bonus +2 ............352:DMG+12 Delay-4 MND+4 Pet: Mag Def Bonus +5 .........353:DMG+8 Lowers Magic Def+5 ............354:DMG+13 Lowers Magic Def+10 ...355:Dark Buffs ......356:Dark Buffs+1 .........357:DMG+7 Delay-4 MP+15 Mag ACC +5 ............358:DMG+12 Delay-4 MP+30 Mag ACC +10 .........359:DMG+7 Delay-4 MP+15 Pet: Mag ACC Bonus +2 ............360:DMG+12 Delay-4 MP+30 Pet: Mag ACC Bonus +5 .........353:DMG+8 Lowers Magic ACC+5 ............354:DMG+13 Lowers Magic ACC+10

Axe 282: Chopper Required 283:Attack+3 ...284:Attack+5 ......285:Changes to BoneBiter: DMG:47 Delay:288 .........286:Attack+3 ............287:Attack+5 ...............288:Attack+7 ..................289:DMG+6 (Totaling 53 base DMG on weapon) ......290: Changes to Punisher: DMG:27 Delay 280 .........291: Delay-4 ............292: DMG+19 (Totalling 46 Base DMG) Delay+32(Totalling 312) Occasionally Attacks Twice  ............293: Delay-8 ...............294: Delay-14 ..................295: Delay+32(Totalling 312) Occasionally Attacks Twice(Given how much this one sucks over its brother id bet theres a difference in Double Attack proc. rate)


 * Offering a friendly comment to the last entry in your list. While you're probably right, another theory could be that the other axe that has similar stats (and the added DMG+19) could just be harder to obtain.  I notice that the trial for that particular weapon requires 10x Baby Blobdingnags (possibly new items since I cannot find them in the wiki at all).  These could be extremely difficult items to obtain.  Just a theory.  Galamantyl 16:44, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very good point. On that note, anyone feel free to reformat this mess. I just wanted to get the info up fast...so axe users didnt have to enter the lagtastic area in front of the Magian Moogle(actually froze my FF Window once).

Editing Format
There is a ton of information to be posted about this quest. There should be an agreement on the formatting of the information. The current page for club and the one being developed for dagger look good, but there is still a ton to add. The one for axe is obviously in need of some formatting. DarkJax 17:25, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

^Agreed. I have been compiling a list format for the Dagger one, as well as screenshots of all, and will add those. However, if a chart form is also available, or even created from the data in the list format, that will also be easier on the eyes than the Axe format. Jhubsch 1:31 pm EDT, March 23, 2010

I am compiling the upgrade info and trial category pages under "Trial Categories" on main page. Maybe if each categories page could contain something similiar to Dagger trials and Club Augments. Each page could be named "Weapon" Trials(ex. Dagger Trials, Marksmanship Trials...), but I don't know how to change the name of a page. I know they are not the neatest looking pages atm but it seems like a good way to start.Markscp 18:29, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

I moved all of the trial information to the individual pages. We can put all of the major information in those pages and leave this page as more of a category page with very little individual trial information. --Malizia 20:09, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should make the name a bit more obvious since saying "Club" usually refers to the page that list all clubs type weapons. Additionally there seems to be some mismatch on the format to list the trials such as page name, E.G. Clug Augments vs Dagger Trials --Lord0din69 20:40, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I knew it, someone made the mistake to put the list trials here. I'm going to work around the titles so it isn't as confusing for people who want to add information. --Lord0din69 01:32, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

In an effort to create a concise, but not too shallow representation of trial stages, I've come up with a table. It's based on the Axe, because I'm currently upgrading one and the information was already available here. Also, for the "elemental path" it has three final customization options (one for Pet jobs, namely BST). I'm guessing weapons equippable by SMN, DRG and PUP will have the same feature. The code should still be reasonably easy to figure out:

Here, the Elements and their linked stats are as follows (at least for axes):

This is very basic, I haven't added the sub-trial numbers or anything else, but it seems like a fairly complete table that could be used on the individual Trials pages. 15:54, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: further tweak, plus implemented on the Axe trials page, with trial numbers included. I think this may be a bit too cluttery, especially for the elemental type trials. 21:59, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Organization by weapon:

I have a suggestion for a format that would allow for these weapons, their trials, and the rewards to fit onto a single page per weapon, but I don't have the experience to make it or test it.

Create a page for each weapon (using only the base weapons picture, to eliminate confusion.) and below create a chart of the trials each weapon has. (Think of it as a reverse ZNM tier chart, starting with the first trial then branching to the resulting trials.)

(I tried to create a make shift chart but failed; the dagger trial page has the right idea, though.)

Then, at the bottom of each page a listing of all the possible trials and rewards that will be linked to the chart. (Think of a simplified gardening chart.)

Like so:

Trail***1 - Kill 100 xpSlimes during weather - ***Reward1 Trial$$$1 - Kill 4 Notorious Monster A      - $$$Reward1 Trial$$$2 - Kill 4 Notorious Monster B      - $$$Reward2 Trail###1 - Kill 3 Notorious Monster C      - ###Reward1 Trail###2 - Kill 3 Notorious Monster D      - ###Reward2

(edit: Actually, the great katana page has a really stream-lined and clean idea for this type of thing. You can see it here: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Great_Katana_Trials)

When the weapon changes to a new weapon move on from the current weapon's page to the resulting weapon's page (only when the weapon's name changes) by linking to the reward at each trials end.

The same idea by category:

The same format could be used if you chose to do everything by category, but the pages would be pretty long and a bit confusing. I believe going by weapon would keep the pages simplified and short instead of the broad range that going by categories creates.

The Dagger Trials page is nice, but the starting weapon is the Peeler. (the Dankini and the Renegade are the reward weapons from the Peeler trials.) It could be confusing for people wondering why they don't see them in the chest, when selecting a weapon. Also, the chart is really big because each cell has a lot of information in it that is listed, again, below the chart. It seems the listing and the chart are saying the same thing, which can be redundant; the listing at the bottom of the page is a bit exhausting to navigate through, as well.

It would be easier to have a small chart with just the trial numbers that link to the corresponding trial description on the listing at the bottom. The listing doesn't even need to be in order; it just needs the details. This will allow people to simply select the trial from the progression chart and jump straight to its details without leaving the page or re-reading the same info twice.

I don't see this being to difficult for a page creating veteran, but only a veteran can say. I understand the dagger trial page is a work in progress; I just thought I'd share a few opinions and suggestions to come up with a universal format for this. (The examples and pages I pointed out have good ideas that just need a bit of tweaking, which is what I am trying to illustrate in my suggestion... Making all these page ideas work as one stream-lined page. I give these guys props for taking action so quickly.) I hope it helps, at least. --Dijidl 10:41, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I'll have to agree with following an organization such as the Dagger Trials page. Even though it's a tiny bit messy, it's the most organized and easy to follow order from what I can tell, given it branches out accordingly all the way to the finalized weapon with the according trial and reward. I don't think we should take away information from it, because it could make things a whole lot more complicated if someone redirected you to ever trial one after the other. I don't know, that's just my line of thinking. --Modoru 13:25, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

I made some more edits to the Dagger Trials page, hopefully it's a lot less messy now and easy to read/follow. I would be proud if we can use that format for the other pages :) What it lacks is information about the weapon in the intermediate stages, but I'm not sure how necessary that information is. Also it was mentioned that the starting weapons listed in the chart might be confusing, perhaps there's a better choice for those. --Malizia 22:09, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Two great page set-ups: I like the updated Dagger page; it looks good. It's reader friendly and clearer, now. I would be okay with it being the standard.

I wanted to point out, however, the H2H page (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hand-to-Hand_Trials). I have talked to a few people and they have really liked that page. It goes along with what I suggested at first. My only suggestion would be if there was a way the links in the chart could have "jumps" to the listing at the bottom, instead of a new page, it would be perfect, imho.--Dijidl 16:08, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Dual wield?
Has anyone tested if the trial works if you use the weapon off-hand? You could dual wield a dagger and say split them at trials 28 and 32 to get one with DMG:+9 Delay-5 Dex+4 Accuracy+8 and one with DMG: +10 Additional Effect: Impairs evasion +10 Edit: Nevermind, he won't let you start trial 16 twice --Goheh 20:32, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

You can't unlock two things at the same time, but you can off-hand the weapon and still get credit for kills. Along with that, WS kills and subbing in at the very end also count. --zarrgoth 01:05, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Dual-wield clarification:

You can, indeed, wield 2 of these weapons, as long as the trial on each one is different. You can hold as many of these weapons as you like, from what I've seen. I currently possess 2 Peelers (one with trial-2 and one with trial-16) and 2 Thundersticks (1 with trial-905 and 1 with no trial).

Example:
 * If you are currently doing trial-16, you cannot undertake another trial-16, until the first one is finished. (The Magian Moogle will not even let you begin another trial-16. I know this because both of the Thundersticks I want to work on start with the same trial-905 and the Magian Moogle wasn't having it.) However, once you complete trial-16 and upgrade, you can go right into another trial-16 with a new Peeler. (This is because the first Peeler is no longer a Peeler or a trial-16.)

As I am typing this, I am on THF/NIN with both of my Peelers equipped. So, I can definitely confirm this. I started both weapons one after the other, and had no problems. The weapons and trials are free, so it is easy for anyone to test and see.

--Dijidl 12:22, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Side Note: Now, given that the weapons will be on two different trials, it is highly unlikely or even impossible to fulfill the requirements of 2 trials at the same time. (In other words, you can equip both daggers, but each mob will almost certainly only be attributing to one of the 2 trials you poses.)

It is good to note that some weapons are while others are only. I suspect this is the real reason you can wield two such weapons, not due to differing trials. What trial is active on a weapons is, I suspect, coincidental. --Volkai 13:19, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Lumberjack != keyitem page
The lumberjack is directing the page to the keyitem for crafting. A new page should be made, although I'm not sure what would the alternative title be. --Lord0din69 20:35, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

About certain trials...
Think about this for a second: Certain trials require you to kill 'x' amount of mobs from 'y' family, right? I noticed there's some that have a weather/element-day requirement as well. If weather applies, does that mean the appropriate element-storm spell would work for it? Technically, the spells -do- grant you a 'weather' surrounding. Someone please verify this for me. --Modoru 00:01, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Disregard this, apparently it got answered on the main page. --Modoru 01:10, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Growing mess on main page
There's no need to list each and every trial number on the main quest page here, we've got a page named H2H_trials start to end path info for h2h can be there, also see http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sword_Trials --PollyWog 01:44, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

i done sword like so Side-sword/Trial Augments--DarkvisionSMN 02:08, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Moreover, I think it would be better if they all were in a smaller scale. I mean so that more of them could be on one line, or at least ===== blah ===== the title. They're GARGANTUAN for the time being. >.< --Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 02:43, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

hehe... every weapon on the main page has 2 links to the same page. IDK what was meant to happen with the Complete Trials list, but having 2 links to the same thing, within 5 lines of each other is redundant. Theode 03:34, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about the link to the Trial pages, the one named "Full List" was added by me because people kept adding a full list of trials here on the main page. It wasn't obvious for people to click on "Club" to get the trial listing added by Malizia. I didn't have the patient to edit out the titles itself since there were too many edits made at the time. It'll be best to remove the link from the titles since it is too ambiguous as to what it might link to. --Lord0din69 18:00, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Unlocking kills while level synced
Anyone able to test this out? I just started working on mine where i have to kill 100 lizards during any weather effect, unfortunately the weather effects in cape terrigan/kuftal dont seem to be as common as I remember. As opposed to places like quicksand caves and such that get sandstorms rather often. The issue of course is those mobs are very too weak at 75, anyone able to confirm that if you level sync to sub 75 with a trial weapon equiped can you still get credit? LiennaOfShiva 06:35, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I want to say "yes". The reason I say want to say yes, is because of the Thunderstick and trial-905. (Kill 100 XP-able members of the Sheep family, while under weather conditions.)  Being as Wild Karakul are the only sheep XP-able by a level 75, outside of level-sync, that would basically be forcing everyone to complete their trial-905 in Caedarva Mire.  This could mean people may, also, have to wait long periods of time for weather conditions, instead of being able to move from zone to zone.  This would make fulfilling the requirements of trial-905 ridiculously tedious and time consuming, while trials like trial-16 for the Peeler can be completed in several zones. (Uleguerand Range, Cape Teriggan, The Boyahda Tree, & Bibiki Bay)  I think it would be a bit lop-sided and unfair, considering they are both starting trials.  But, it is SE; I wouldn't put it pass them.
 * This could be tested, easily. I will try before I go to bed.--Dijidl 13:18, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me know what you find out, unfortunately I didnt have anyone to sync with last night or I would have tried. If this works that will be great news indeed. LiennaOfShiva 14:55, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Level-sync does work. Tested this on my COR75, with the Thunderstick equipped, level-synced to a BST15; killed 5 Mad Sheep in Konschtat Highlands and got credit for all of them, including one sheep we started fighting before the weather started. (It died after the earth weather had started and still gave me credit; the credit for it was signified by a system message much like FoV would give.) Also as a bonus test for curiosity, for 2 of the sheep I never fired my Thunderstick; this proves that you don't even need to use the ranged weapons, just have them equipped.--Dijidl 16:02, March 24, 2010 (UTC)