Talk:2010 - (06/17/2010) Adjustments of the Job Persuasion!

the pic on this page needs to be reposted the ablilty Mana Wall had a typo on the duration of the skill. Se has fixed this typo on there website so this paged should be fixed as well (typo: duration was typed as 5 seconds when it was realy 5 minutes). Batboy267 14:13, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * done. thanks. -- 14:19, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

No new abilities for Rdm? --Kresaera~*~ 14:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Red Mage...
Actually red Mage is getting a lot... Although you have to look deep to see it... For one rem will now have access to sch accession and manifestation easing the burden of buffing in pts also paladin is getting phalanx so that takes one more thing off our to do list. As for soloing purposes go with dancer geting dual wield at lv 20 red Mage is free to ditch the utsusemi for the myrad of dnc abilities and removing the need to waste mp on cures while still allowing redmage to dual wield multiple hit weapons. Especially handy when the mob you wanna solo spans aoe ws's or uses spells or abilities that bypass shadows. Not to mention pro v... That gives us amuch needed def boost. I think rdm is actually getting a lot if you stop and think about it. We may not have a new ability to callour own but we are inheriting a lot from our support jobs. EDIT: sorry forgot to sign... --Tristaenkun 18:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

If you notice from the list of stuff added, each job gets something new and unique to them. Except Red mage. SCH and WHM also get Prot V. We get spells that belong to other jobs. SE won't even - after all this time - give us Enlight and Endark, so no. Everyone but RDM main benefits from this update.

We lose far more than we gain: Corsair now get Fast Cast roll, there's our monopoly on that gone. We lose Refresh as a unique spell (no-one's getting Ballad II on a sub). We've lost Convert as SE have been showing BLM and WHM using that JA. We've lost Phalanx exclusivity on a main (our Enhancing magic is higher than PLD's by the way, so Phalanx II from a fully-merited Red mage will reduce dmg taken further). Every /WHM at 80 will most likely have Haste, so that's another thing we lose. And SCH would be able to Accession > Haste with lower recast and less MP cost. Oh, and Accession > Refresh of course... -- Orubicon 15:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm having this fight in several other places, but specifically addressing Accession > Refresh? At the moment, that's only an ability that RDM gets - Scholar won't get it until 82. When we see the September update, then it might be an issue. --Kasandaro 18:11, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Balance
Both RDM and SAM have noticeably lacklustre improvements in this update, I think, as do other jobs. But it's important not to look at things from the perspective of "What am I getting/losing?" but instead from the perspective of balance between the jobs. It's pretty clear that the ToAU update, and particularly Colibris, has throw PT mechanics way out of balance. Everyone insists on RDM healers for Refresh and SAM is hands down the referred DD past 54, and to some degree, past 10. Try having a BLM, SMN, PUP or BST in your PT and just see if someone says something condescending, not withstanding the fact that soloing at ToAU levels is hardly worth the effort.

PLD getting Phalanx doesn't ruin RDM's "monopoly" because PLD will never have a sufficient mana pool to cast on multiple people, and RDM has higher levels of Phalanx. Nor does Refresh or Convert being made available to other jobs ruin RDM. It simply makes other jobs more competitive as healers. Except for particular circumstances, RDM has always been a superior healing job in my opinion, at least in PTs. The doubled recast of Accession is somewhat limiting for SCH, and the tripled recast is definitely limiting for /SCH. Also, neither BLM or WHM have practical solutions to recovering their MP except resting or using items.

Don't look at it as what is being lot. In truth, nothing is being lost or taken away. Other jobs that have been neglected are finally getting some much needed attention. It's about time. Really it is. This update should be looked at from the perspective of balance. RDM has had a "monopoly" on invites as main-heal, and that alone is an indication that balance has been lacking.

typographical error
In the section on DNC being able to heal out-of-party, "Cure Wallz" should in fact be "Cure Waltz" :D Potyhoty 15:19, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * fixed. -- 16:20, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

BLU
I like how they don't even mention the names of the BLU spells they're adding, but they name each and every JA and spell they're adding for all the other jobs.

FYI, The spell the BLU in the image is using is Gnole's Plenilune Embrace, which is a cure (self-cure for them) that depends on the moonphase, and gives a bonus to ATK, Magic ATK, and acts like erase. Dunno how it'll work as a BLU spell, except it'll either be a self-buff/cure (Pollen is self-only, Exuviation is self-only), or a party only single target cure (Wild Carrot or Magic Fruit). It'll either cure a lot (maybe a much stronger version of pollen) or it'll be a gimped version and cure a little (like the player version of Exuviation, which only erases one erasable status effect and cures ~80+ damage). If it's self-target only, Diffusion will make it AoE and hit the whole party in range, curing them, erasing them, etc., but likely generate a lot of enmity. I'm also wondering how much MP it'll cost. It depends on the other factors, but it may not be cheap to cost or set. Exuviation is 5 points to set, and in this update, you don't gain any blue magic points, since you only gain points at lvl 11, 21, 31, 41, etc. When the level cap is above lvl 81, we'll get more points to set stuff. Right now, the cap is 50 points (if you max out assimilation). I'm wondering how the hell I'll fit in more useful spells, unless I take out fast cast (Bad Breath and Sub-Zero Smash), or if we're lucky, maybe one of the new spells will make a cheaper to set fast cast, because I like having that for utsusemi casting. Current standard set up for BLU/NIN gives me between 2-6 or 11 spare points, depending on whether I need MP Drainkiss, and whether I keep in bad breath for fast cast. --Sabishii 17:35, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Personally Giving some more luster to other, under-valued jobs is the right way to go...to be honest theres not a lot rdm can get that we actually want/need...and remember there is still 81-99 to look forward to for all you angry rdm's... personally im rdm75 and I think the small additions...pro V regen II, and access to some new subjob abilities are a huge improvement for rdm (from a soloists point of view) as far as a party aspect, we dominated pt healer slots for far too long lets give some of the attention to those who wanted it for just as long. --Tristaenkun 18:56, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Dancer
In my opinion, Dancer is the big winner in this update with 3 new Job Abilities, 5 new Job Traits and allowing waltz's to cure out of party. It's interesting though that most of these new abilities are designed to increase DPS which is a break from the original role of the dancer.

Climatic Flourish, I think, will give one automatic critical for each Finishing Move available. Combined with Saber Dance and the new Critical Attack Bonus, this is a solid DPS boost. However, it has a 90 second delay which, unless they make a Flourishes III Category, means Reverse Flourish will be unavailable creating a choice between damage output and TP for healing.

The Skillchain Bonus** is more obvious in making that choice between DPS and healing. Also, by giving dancers Dual Wield there's less reason to go /nin, making /sam the likely sub of choice for most players because of Meditate, Store TP, and Zanshin. Lowering Sekkanoki to 40 means an easy Dark chain of Evisceration to Pyrrhic Cleos and maybe even a Light chain with Shark Bite to Aeolian Edge.

(I think Skillchain Bonus might be a typo on SE's original post. I think it should read SAM 45 and DNC 78 but we'll find out on Monday.)

Dancer also gets 3 new TP boosters in Tactical Parry, Conserve TP and most of all Presto. Presto means it only takes 2 Steps to get full Finishing Moves which yields 12 TP over a 4 move Reverse Flourish or saves 10 TP and 15 seconds on the 3rd step to get to full.

Finally, dancer is the new king of Campaign with Divine Waltz II, which will likely cure AoE for about 450 HP (the equivalent of Curing Waltz III). Because dancer's can now cure non-party members, one cast of Divine Waltz II on 20 DD's will cure 9000 HP for a likely cost of one weapon skill.

Now is it too much to ask for a raise...? --Poge 21:35, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Dancer's giving players raises... the jokes are just too easy. Esdain of Kujata Aeonova 23:25, June 17, 2010 (UTC)