Talk:Item Template/Archive 5/7/2007

Protected Page
To prevent new users from accidently editing this page when created an item, I have protected it. You can still click on View Source to view and copy the code for use in making items. If you wish to make an intentional change in this template, please enter your request here in the talk page. --Chrisjander 19:38, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

Other Uses
For the "Other Uses" section, I've been leaving in all three sections, GP, Quests, and NPC sell-to price (based on the "leave everything above the how-to-obtain section" rule), but I've noticed that sometimes people (/wave Chrisjander) will go in and remove them if they're "none". Should I be only including those categories when there's positive information, and leave them out if the items isn't used for GP or quests? Thanks. --Tsakiki 10:41, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

For me, yes, I feel there's no real informative need to list an "Other Use" that isn't a use. Knowing that its used in zero quests isn't helpful information, while "Cannot be sold to NPCs" can be useful. If its not a crafted item, it doesn't have and will never have a guild point value, so saying None is a bit superfluous. Just my take on things, since those bits don't take away from the look of things, the basic format and look of the page stays intact when you remove those things. --Chrisjander 11:09, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Item Trade Reward
Originally I created the ENM Reward Exchange section to handle the items that you gain from trading items dropped from ENMs to Vanessa to get a reward of some sort. I didn't realize at the time that there are many similar situations where you will trade an item(s) to a specific NPC for a reward, such as the Ancient Beastcoins, and other such trades.

So what I'm proposing is that I change the ENM Reward Exchange section to encompass them all, and call it the "Item Trade Reward" section. Instead of just the "Item Traded" column, I'll include a column for the NPC you trade to, and a column for the reward, although the last one is up for debate, as its a little too redundant. Is there any other information that belongs in this section? Remember, this is the section under "How to Obtain", so this applies to the reward pages, not the trade item pages. Thoughts and ideas? -Chrisjander 18:11, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

Hmm, I could've sworn I posted something here. Maybe my Firefox crashed and I left it unposted in a tab when I was otherwise busy ingame hehe. Anyway, I like the idea! Let's make sure we do have the reward column so that it can handle item trades where you receive multiple copies of the reward (99x Virtue Stones for example). :)

As a sidenote, I don't really think the Ancient Beastcoin purchases belong in exactly the same "item trade reward" classification. Sagheera lets you trade Ancient Beastcoins to her whenever you want, and in any quantity. She will keep track of your balance, and then at any time in the future when you have at least 75 coins you can purchase a Brutal Earring for instance. So, the way Ancient Beastcoin purchases work is actually more like CP/IS item purchases. --Ichthyos 18:51, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Perhaps then change the title depending on the type of trade? Same format, but the title of the section changes, like with Dropped From and Stolen From. What do you think? --Chrisjander 21:35, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Sounds great! --Ichthyos 22:12, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Templating the technical code
I keep seeing pages with serious visual errors due to someone screwing up the technical coding a little. If we template the code, it should nearly eliminate this problem, and, as a bonus, make it easier to change if it's ever needed.

Each template could just consist of the coding and the section under it. For example, Template:Statistics would look like: {|cellpadding="5" width="100%" |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"| ==Statistics== And all you would have to type would be.

I'm not sure if this will affect section editing or not (a problem I had with my full-page template), but I think it's worth a try.

~ Karuberu 17:36, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Is it possible to just template:

{|cellpadding="5" width="100%" |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"|

Now if we templated that I think it would be a good idea... Now anyone can use this not just above statistics but when they need to make columns in the Synthesis section as well. The only problem I see with this, is that normally I copy the |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"| from the top line so I can place it in all the appropriate areas... maybe make a template for that as well? It is the only part of the Item Template I don't have memorized and I know it is the same for Chris as well... The coding is too hard to type off on its own...

On one hand, I don't want to have to go back and change all the ones we have already done, but on the other hand there are so many weirdly formatted top parts out there that it would be easy if we just templated the correct way for everyone to use... So I dunno... I would have to see what others thought before I really went one way or the other on this --Nynaeve 18:34, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

It would be possible, but new users would still ask "What's that for?" and might leave it out (Also, they might misplace them if they aren't named fool-proof names). It's easier if it's hidden in a template with an obvious purpose (it would look cleaner as well). However, if we run into problems because the section name is templated, then we can make the templates code-only.

Regarding your second statement, you won't have to go and change any old pages unless you want to; the templates would just be a thing for new pages and something to change when editing old pages for other reasons. ~ Karuberu 19:07, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

I get what you are saying, just not sure yet... let me mull over it - I do not think it is a good idea to hide the fact that there is coding there... I think all users should know and understand the coding so that they can make columns and such on other pages without being confused... I mean they will see the: |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"| but have no idea why it is there... they won't realize its a continuation of {|cellpadding="5" width="100%" |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"| and therefor wont understand what it all means. Lately I haven't been seeing too many problems with new people not formatting this correctly... Chris's guide really has explained the template well and I think it helps the users to understand straight out what the coding is and what it does. While i don't like it when I see weird plain valign and no width coding, but I have been seeing it less and less now. With the addition of the New User Template which one of us Admins posts on the new peoples user pages, the amount of formatting errors on new pages has gone down, all we need to do now is rectify the old ones and with Enfield's parser, it has gotten a lot easier. So for right now, I suppose I say no, while I would like it for just the coding myself due to the fact that I understand the coding and its purpose and hate typing it out, I also understand that we need the new users to understand it before we can go and hide it - I think it might just cause a misunderstanding rather than aide. --Nynaeve 19:24, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Good point (though I'd still like to see it templated). And we would template all the sections, not just statistics, so they wouldn't have to worry about seeing the " |width="50%" valign="top" align="left"| " (unless there's some unforseen error due to section editing or something similar). And this doesn't need to be rushed, so feel free to take your time thinking about it. ~ Karuberu 19:58, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, I agree, in the long run once we got the bulk understanding what it is and if it can be templated, I would love it to be, I am so lazy and would love to be able to type the whole template from memory lol... would be sooo much easier... esp at work.. its hard to open up a seperate window at work just to copy that code... I mean if they catch me with one window I might get smacked, but two is really asking for it. For now though, I want more people to understand the coding and its purpose not just a template for the coding. ^^ --Nynaeve 20:05, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Price
In items that are able to be sold in the AH, is there a chance we could include a way to get a price rating of the item at hand? As of now, the only way I could imagine doing that is linking to http://www.ffxiah.com, but that would be an outside link and all~ -- Dragonspight 15:03 23 September 2006 (CST)

We do not have the ability to monitor the AH prices on all servers at all times, so its best if we don't put it at all. I know there are a few items floating around out there with an old listed price, but we're deleting that bit as we find them. --Chrisjander 09:16, 23 September 2006 (EDT)

Other Uses section
I've thought of a few changes to this section to make it a little more understandable and expandable.

First off, the guild points line: Guild Points Value: ???
 * Maximum Points: ???? (?.? items)

I think it's a lot more understandable to new users, is more informative, and looks a little bit better. The Maximum Points line would be removed if it's worth no points (just use the normal "Guild Points Value: None").

Next, the Quests line: Used in Quests:
 * 

This way is more expandable, since a lot of items are used in multiple quests. This is already used on several pages, so I really think this one should be changed. Again, the :* line would be removed if it's not used in any quests (use "Used in Quests: None" instead).

Then, the NPC Sell Price line: NPC Value: ???~??? gil I started the "NPC Sell Price" thing, but I've noticed that some users are confused by the name, thinking that it's the price to buy from merchants, not to sell to merchants. I think NPC Value is a lot less confusing (hopefully).

And finally, the "Used For:" line, which is on some pages, but not currently in the template: Used For: All together, it looks like this:

Guild Points Value: ???
 * Maximum Points: ???? (?.? items)

Used in Quests:
 * 

NPC Sell Price: ???~??? gil Used For:

~ Karuberu 16:52, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I'm not keen on the Maximum Points line, I think it takes up more space than it's worth. There should be a space for maximum number of items, though, as you suggest.

Used in Quests is how I've been doing it for most pages, so I don't see any problems, since it looks nice, although I'd get rid of the ":" before the "*", because the asterisk already indents the line already, there's no need for additional indentation.

NPC Sell Price is confusing, but NPC Value is even more confusing. If I weren't aware of what it was before, it would mean absolute gibberish. But you are right that NPC Sell Price can be taken as a bit ambiguous. It's hard to think of a short and concise title for it, but I'll give it a whirl. Howabouts we label it Sell Price to NPC:? Does that sound short and sweet?

I think the Used in Quest and Used for sections are basically the same, you can just use the same format for quests, or anything else that falls under that format (with separate lines for separate uses). All in all, just minor changes, but some clarification is appropriate. --Chrisjander 17:51, 9 November 2006 (EST)

NPC Sell Price: ???~??? gil should be NPC Sell Price: ???~??? gil. Do not change it to that garbage. I haven't heard of people being dim enough not to realize what NPC Sell Price means... I know you started it, so it says something for me to go no keep it as you made it but the second I read it I realized where it was coming from and don't think it needs to be altered for the mentally challenged. Everyone that I know, knows what that means, and I think many others do as well that I dont considering they add the price in as they see it.

I agree with Chris on the Used In/Used For Section being similar. We do that with a lot of stuff - like Steal being the same format as Dropped from or whatever...

The spacing for the Used in Quests though - I agree with that change.

I dont think we need the maximum on a seperate line I think we can space that off on the same line as the Guild Point Items. But Im not sure. --Nynaeve 18:19, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Yeah, now that I think of it, "NPC Value" is even more confusing than "NPC Sell Price". Either "Sell Price to NPCs:" or "Value to NPCs:" would be good; I just want it to be clear what the line is for, that's all (and yes, I've seen some people putting the buy price in there).

The "maximum points" line for the guild points is mainly just for looks and so noone gets confused (yes, catering to the slow people again). I really think it should be included, but I'm not going to fight for it, so it's up to you if you include it or not.

And not including the "Used For" line is fine with me, but including an editing note or something would be nice.

~ Karuberu 19:59, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I thought these changes were going to be made... did you guys just forget about them or something?

Anyways, I recently thought up "Value to Merchants:". It's more specific than the other suggestions, and it's better to use full terms, rather than abbreviations, whenever possible. ~ Karuberu 17:13, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Too vague, I still think NPC Sell Price is specific enough for people who can read. Hmm, got me thinking though... NPC Buyback Price:? (as a sidenote, apparently my dictionary recognizes "buyback" as a single word...) --Chrisjander 20:04, 19 January 2007 (EST)

It wouldn't be buyback if it's something that isn't sold, such as Ex items (just being technical). I like "Value to Merchants" because it simply says "how much this is worth to merchant NPCs" (maybe put a link to the merchant NPC category there), and the amount has "gil" after it, so it's not like they could confuse it with Guild Points or something. I guess it really doesn't matter (as long as "gil" is after it, people should get the idea), but it's been bothering me; I want to make the wiki as easy to understand and "pretty" as possible. ~ Karuberu 21:21, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Just a small remark, "Used in Quests" is currently formatted in the template as: Used in Quests: Couldn't the colon be included in the bold font, like the other items? Used in Quests: Bitchy I know but it keeps drawing my attention :P --Eithin 18:09, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

can you add this to chocobo digging template
|align="center" colspan="2" BGCOLOR="#ffdead"| * = Diggable via Burrow + = Diggable via ''Bore

My personal chocobo has both burrow and bore abilities now and I been digging with it, and adding the information as I get to dig in the zones. I made a little table entry code to clarify those items only obtained by digging with a chocobo that has that certain ability. -- Ayrlie 09:19, 15 November 2006 (CST).