User talk:Divisortheory/Stage 5 Relics

Talk
Please keep chat here.--TP 03:08, 27 February 2007 (EST)

Miscellaneous Unsorted Info
(the following was presumably posted by User:zoogelio-forgot-his-password): Here's what I've accumulated from the KI thread and from doing some searching online

The number next to the server is what # server they were to obtain that weapon. 0 means its their 2nd weapon of that type.

Name		Server		When obtained (roughly)

DAGGER (Mandau) Issei		Diabolos1	Late June 2005 (THF) [they got banned from the game in Fall 2005] [6/20/05 or earlier] Erena 		Caitsith2	Unknown. Sometime in Summer-Early Fall 2005 [maybe her 2nd Relic Weapon] Songoku 	Bahamut3	Early-Mid October 2005 Brunnhilde 	Carbuncle4	Late October 2005 Judymary 	Titan5		Unknown. Fall 2005? [JP] Zakuone 	Cerberus6	Early December 2005 Cleen 		Fenrir7		Late January 2006 (THF) [1st NA to get Mandau] Knockout 	Shiva8		Mid February 2006 Gravekeeper 	Shiva0		Late February 2006 Dava 		Alexander9	Late March 2006 Milly 		Ramuh10		Early April 2006 (THF) Sora		Siren11		Mid May 2006 Takuma		Shiva0		Late May 2006 Noise		Bismarck12	Late May 2006 Lordwafik	Asura13		Late May 2006 (5/27/06) (Hume-M (THF, BST)) Irtehdevine	Titan0		Early June 2006 Miluku		Caitsith0	Late June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 6 Total (6/18/06): 17 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 15

Stats: Diabolos was the first server to obtain a Mandau. Shiva was the first server to obtain more than one Mandau.

SWORD (Excalibur) Elweed 	Phoenix1	[fill in data here] Discordian 	Midgardsormr2	Late September 2005 (9/24/05) Ssizz 		Kujata3		Late September 2005 Peregrine 	Shiva4		Unknown. Sometime in October 2005 Bikkwin 	Bahamut5	Mid October 2005 Rave 		Seraph6		Early-Mid November 2005 Yua 		Phoenix0	Mid November 2005 Arcers 	Odin7		Mid-Late November 2005 Kagura 	Caitsith8	Mid-Late November 2005 [JP] Hattifnatt 	Alexander9	Late November 2005 [JP] Rika 		Lakshmi10	Late November 2005 Jwb 		Bismarck11	Early December 2005 (~12/4/05) (RDM) Shikichi 	Remora12	Mid December 2005 Wolfheinrich 	Gilgamesh13	~December 2005 Rit 		Remora0		Unknown. Probably December 2005/January 2006 Hachi 		Ifrit14		Mid January 2006 Katsuma 	Valefor15	sometime before Late January 2006 [JP] Jiuwanie 	Kujata0		Late January 2006 (1/25/06) Bramd 		Quetzalcoatl16	Late January 2006 Roundhouse 	Unicorn17	Early February 2006 (2/7/06) Lei 		Midgardsormr0	Mid March 2006 (PLD) [his 2nd Relic Weapon] Vali 		Leviathan18	Mid March 2006 Atrox 		Ragnarok19	Mid March 2006 Senseless 	Remora0		Late March 2006 Lucien 	Ragnarok0	Early April 2006 (4/6/06) Groucho		Shiva0		Early April 2006 (RDM) Raito		Pandemonium20	Early April 2006 (Hume-M (PLD) Pirorin		Valefor0	Early-Mid April 2006 (RDM) Yuzuu		Phoenix0	Early-Mid April 2006 General 	Phoenix0	Mid April 2006 (4/14/06) (Hume-M (PLD)) Griffith  	Bahamut0	Late April 2006 Light		Phoenix0	Mid May 2006 Neosaber	Caitsith0	Late May 2006 Seeker		Phoenix0	by Mid-Late June 2006 [their 2nd Relic Weapon] Glorias		Phoenix0	by Mid-Late June 2006 Rooi		Quetzalcoatl0	by Mid-Late June 2006 Soulessknight	Carbuncle21	Late June 2006 (6/27/06) Total (End of 2005): 14 Total (6/29/06): 37 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 36

Stats: Phoenix was the first server to obtain an Excalibur. Phoenix was the first server to obtain more than one Excalibur.

GREAT SWORD (Ragnarok) Ostrea 	Gilgamesh1	[before 6/18/05] (Elvaan-M (DRK)) [JP] Raizo 		Titan2		Late November 2005 (~11/22/05) (Galka (DRK)) [JP] Yuta 		Titan0		Late December 2005 [JP] Piko		Cerberus3	Late May 2006 Lum		Sylph4		Late May/Early June 2006 Tzu		Fenrir5		Mid June 2006 (???-M (DRK)) Mats		Ramuh6		[need data here] Total (End of 2005): 3 Total (6/29/06): 7 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 7

Stats: Gilgamesh was the first server to obtain a Ragnarok. Titan was the first server to obtain more than one Ragnarok.

AXE (Guttler) Coffeeblack	Leviathan1	Late May 2006 Total (End of 2005): 0 Total (6/17/06): 1 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 1

Stats: Leviathan was the first server to obtain a Guttler.

GREAT AXE (Bravura) Ryohousen 	Gilgamesh1	[before 6/18/05] (Galka (WAR)) [JP] Jaypee 	Ragnarok2	Early October 2005 (10/1/05) (Hume-F (WAR) [NA] Underscore  	Midgardsormr3	Mid-Late October 2005 Lhexh  		Seraph4		~Mid October 2005 Nicholas  	Gilgamesh0	Late November 2005 Shiina  	Leviathan5	Late November 2005 Cqr  		Siren6		~Late November 2005 Ikasam  	Remora7		Late November/Early December 2005 Halley  	Lakshmi8	Mid-Late December 2005 Stephen  	Midgardsormr0	Early March 2006 (Taru-M (WAR)) [NA] Trinsie		Hades9		Early June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 9 Total (6/17/06): 11 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 10

Stats: Gilgamesh was the first server to obtain a Bravura. Gilgamesh was the first server to obtain more than one Bravura.

KATANA (Kikoku) Exgrave 	Shiva1		[before 7/31/05] Hiraiken 	Titan2		Early-Mid September 2005 Obiwan 	Diabolos3	Unknown. Fall 2005 Reza 		Diabolos0	Unknown. Fall 2005 Dddon 		Ragnarok4	Late October/Early November 2005 Kohhei 	Valefor5	Mid-Late November 2005 Dauragon 	Gilgamesh6	Late November 2005 [JP] Sadam 		Titan0		Late December 2005 (NIN) Tomosakai 	Leviathan7	Late December 2005 Solidgold 	 Pandemonium8	Late December 2005 Dillinja 	Shiva0		Early January 2006 (Taru-M (NIN)) Asraferu 	Odin9		Mid January 2006 Aidanizen 	Unicorn10	Early February 2006 (2/2/06) Koba 		Cerberus11	Early February 2006 Jahga 		Odin0		Early-Mid February 2006 Battosi 	Bismarck12	Early March 2006 (3/8/06) Kirianna 	Garuda13	Late March 2006 Keichan		Seraph14	Early April 2006 Rvision 	Quetzacoatl15	Early May 2006 Kisada 	Quetzacoatl0	Early May 2006 Jesper		Hades16		Mid May 2006 [JP] Stellar 	Ragnarok0	Late May 2006 Joel		Sylph17		Late May/Early June 2006 Deniro		Ramuh18		Early June 2006 Espresso	Pandemonium0	Early June 2006 Minidragon	Bismarck0	Early/Mid June 2006 [also has Maat's Cap] Jousuke		<<< server?>>>	Late June 2006 Divayth		Ramuh0		Late June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 10 Total (6/29/06): 28 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 30 <<<< missing 2 <<<<

Stats: Shiva was the first server to obtain a Kikoku. Diabolos was the first server to obtain more than one Kikoku.

GREAT KATANA (Amanomurakumo) Boit 		Caitsith1	[place date here] Buzin 		Titan2		Early-Mid October 2005 (Hume-M) Tsuto 		Fenrir3		Late November 2005 Mkjn 		Bahamut4	Unknown. ~December 2005 [JP] Fosethia 	Carbuncle5	Late January 2006 Dilandau 	Sylph6		Early-Mid February 2006 [JP] Stranger 	Odin7		Mid-Late February 2006 [JP] Yakusya 	Gilgamesh8	Early-Mid March 2006 Celine 	Ragnarok9	Mid-March 2006 Espresso	Leviathan10	Mid June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 4 Total (6/29/06): 10 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 10

Stats: Caitsith was the first server to obtain an Amanomurakumo.

CLUB (Mjollnir) Lattelatte 	Alexander1	Late October/Early November 2005 Lavish 	Titan2		Late November 2005 (Hume-M (WHM)) [their 2nd Relic Weapon] Guen 		Fenrir3		Early January 2006 Hitosi 	Asura4		Mid-Late March 2006 Kuzuha		Gilgamesh5	Early-Mid April 2006 Asteea		Siren6		Mid May 2006 [JP] (???? (WHM)) Total (End of 2005): 2 Total (6/17/06): 6 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 6

Stats: Alexander was the first server to obtain a Mjollnir.

STAFF (Claustrum) Caile 		Ragnarok1	[before 7/2/05] (Taru-? (SMN)) [JP]) Vipey		Titan2		Late June 2006 (SMN) Total (End of 2005): 1 Total (6/29/06): 2 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 1

Stats: Ragnarok was the first server to obtain a Claustrum.

HAND-TO-HAND (Spharai) Olochi 	Diabolos1	[place date here] (Hume-M (MNK) [JP] Gradient	Kujata2	         Mid-Late July 2005 [NA] [1st NA to get a Relic Weapon] Lucifar  	Quetzalcoatl3	Early-Mid October 2005 Muze  		Titan4		Mid November 2005 (Elvaan-M (MNK)) Myriana  	Siren5		Unknown. ~December 2005 Goodspeed  	Leviathan6	Late December 2005 Keitia  	Ragnarok7	Late January 2006 Zintonick  	Remora8		Early February 2006 Knuckle  	Seraph9		Late February 2006 (Galka (MNK)) Kenzsmasters  	Midgardsormr10	Mid March 2006 (3/18/06) Brennon		Asura11		Early April 2006 (4/7/06) (Elvaan-F (MNK)) Yoshinori	Cerberus12	Mid May 2006 (MNK) Juice		Leviathan0	by Mid June 2006 [their 2nd Relic Weapon] Zoya		Lakshmi13	Mid-Late June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 6 Total (6/29/06): 14 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 13

Stats: Diabolos was the first server to obtain a Spharai.

POLEARM (Gungnir) Kaluga 	Caitsith1	[6/25/05 or earlier] [JP] Nasheru 	Ragnarok2	Late October 2005 Keisuke 	Siren3		Unknown. Sometime between Late Fall 2005- Early Spring 2006[JP] Endica 	Ifrit4		Early April 2006 Ishtal		Ragnarok0	Early-Mid June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 2 Total (6/17/06): 5 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 5

Stats: Caitsith was the first server to obtain a Gungnir. Ragnarok was the first server to obtain more than one Gungnir.

SCYTHE (Apocalypse) Deathknight 	Phoenix1	[place date here] Rui 		Alexander2	~Early July 2005 Roger 		Lakshmi3	Unknown. Sometime between Summer 2005 and Early Spring 2006 Zan 		Bahamut4	Mid April 2006 Calble 	Kujata5		Late April 2006 (4/29/06) (Elvaan-M (DRK)) Serise 	Quetzacoatl6	Early May 2006 Vivaud		Carbuncle7	Mid May 2006 (Elvaan-M (DRK)) Cashell		Quetzalcoatl0	Late May 2006 Unctgtg*	Ragnarok8	Late May 2006 (Hume-M (DRK)) Total (End of 2005): 3 Total (6/17/06): 9 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 8

Stats: Phoenix was the first server to obtain an Apocalypse. Quetzalcoatl was the first server to obtain more than one Apocalypse.

ARCHERY (Yoichinoyumi) Muteki 	Seraph1		[place date here] Eiji 		Ifrit2		Early-Mid October 2005 Juice 		Leviathan3	Mid-Late October 2005 [their 1st Relic Weapon] Naporing 	Fenrir4		sometime ~October 2005 [JP] Miro 		Gilgamesh5	Late November 2005 [JP] Metalzig 	Bismarck6	Early-Mid January 2006 Liru 		Cerberus7	Mid March 2006 (~3/18/06) Folna 		Hades8		Unknown. Spring 2006 [JP] Destestu 	Ragnarok9	Unknown. Spring 2006[JP] Elnath		Shiva10		for a while before Early May 2006 Total (End of 2005): 4 Total (6/17/06): 10 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 12 <<<< missing 2 <<<<

Stats: Seraph was the first server to obtain a Yoichinoyumi.

MARKSMANSHIP (Annihilator) Arrow 		Odin1		[place date here] (Taru-M) Mimoza 	Ragnarok2	Late July 2005 [JP] Erena 		Caitsith3	Unknown. Late Summer/Early Fall 2005 [maybe her 2nd Relic Weapon] Baran 		Ragnarok0	Early October 2005 Kupo 		Diabolos4	Mid October 2005 Hatpop 	Shiva5		Early December 2005 Lowzeon 	Carbuncle6	Mid-Late December 2005 Deevo 		Fenrir7		Late December 2005 Norix 		Leviathan8	Unknown. Late 2005? Ponco 		Shiva0		Late December 2005/ Early January 2006 (Mithra) [JP] Dalsengo 	Carbuncle0	Early January 2006 Syin 		Alexander9	Mid January 2006 Doshu		Fairy10		Mid-Late January 2006 (RNG) Peco 		Phoenix11	before early Feb 2006 Keisuke 	Cerberus12	Mid-Late March 2006 Ramirez		Diabolos0	Before Early June 2006 (RNG) Siva		Ragnarok0	Early-Mid June 2006 (Hume-M? (RNG)) Total (End of 2005): 10 Total (6/17/06): 17 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 21 <<<< missing 4 <<<<

Stats: Odin was the first server to obtain an Annihilator. Ragnarok was the first server to obtain more than one Annihilator.

INSTRUMENT (Gjallarhorn) Lavish 		Titan1		[place date here] Ostrea 	Gilgamesh2	[June 2005] Letticia 	Odin3		Late July 2005 (7/27/05) (Hume-F (BRD)) [JP] Simd 		Pandemonium4	Late August 2005 [JP] Tredvolt 	Bismarck5	Early October 2005 Timothay 	Diabolos6	Mid October 2005 Aroe 		Lakshmi7	Late November 2005 Caudle 	Diabolos0	Late December 2005 Daxam 		Fenrir8		Late January 2006 Luna 		Diabolos0	Mid-Late February 2006 Elien 		Cerberus9	Mid March 2006 (3/20/06) Zyclon 	Hades10		Mid-Late March 2006 Tellus 		Leviathan11	Early May 2006 Barbarossa	Shiva12		Early-Mid May 2006 [name withheld]	Ragnarok13	Late May 2006 Lindstrom 	Midgardsormr14	Early June 2006 Noitide		Ramuh15		Early June 2006 [1st non-JP Relic on Ramuh] Selenda		Bismarck0	Early/Mid June 2006 Rosencrantz	Bismarck0	Early/Mid June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 8 Total (6/29/06): 19 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 21 <<<< missing 2 <<<<

Stats: Titan was the first server to obtain a Gjallarhorn. Diabolos was the first server to obtain more than one Gjallarhorn.

SHIELD (Aegis) Seeker 	Phoenix1	Late October/Early November 2005 (Elvaan-M (PLD)) Masachika 	Alexander2	Late November 2005 (Taru-M) (11/26/05) Ryuta 		Odin3		Early December 2005 Season 	Diabolos4	Mid December 2005 (12/13/05) Rio 		Caitsith5	Late December 2005 [also owned a Maat's Cap] Garcons 	Unicorn6	Mid-Late January 2006 (1/21/06) (Galka (PLD)) [JP] Yoshihiro 	Titan7		Early February 2006 (Galka (PLD)) [JP] Winraf 	Bismarck8	Early-Mid February 2006 Kuick 		Ragnarok9	sometime before mid February 2006 Lei 		Midgardsormr10	sometime in February 2006 (PLD) Sinus 		Remora11	Mid-Late March 2006 (3/22/06) (PLD) Sonix 		Diabolos0	Early April 2006 (4/8/06) Samidare	Gilgamesh12	Early-Mid April 2006 Dilias 	Diabolos0	Mid April 2006 (4/15/06) (Hume-M (PLD)) Ostrea 	Gilgamesh0	Early May 2006 [their 3rd Relic Weapon] Terny		Ragnarok0	Late May 2006 Sia		Remora0		Early June 2006 (Galka (PLD)) Laphroaig	Cerberus13	Early-Mid June 2006 Ssizz		Kujata14	Mid June 2006 (Hume-F (PLD)) [their 2nd Relic Weapon] Maximuss	Bismarck0	by Mid June 2006 Falco		Leviathan15	Mid June 2006 Kenshirou	Caitsith0	Late June 2006 Archimond	Garuda16	Late June 2006 (~6/23/06) Relkin		Ragnarok0	Late June 2006 Total (End of 2005): 5 Total (6/29/06): 24 6th Vana'diel Census (6/23/06): 22

Stats: Phoenix was the first server to obtain an Aegis. Diabolos was the first server to obtain more than one Aegis.

obtaining it months earlier, but that JP player got banned recently before anyone could check him by May 2006.
 * - Supposedly, Unctgtc was the 2nd DRK to obtain Apocalypse on Ragnarok Server, with a JP player

There were also reports of a BRD with Gjallarhorn on Ragnarok, but they wished to go nameless.

I have the data on when the very first people got Relic Weapons in Spring- Fall 2005, I just have to find it. --zoogelio-forgot-his-password 16:35, 29 June 2006 (PDT)

http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=131007 indicates that Unctgtg's Scythe isn't yet complete. --Aurikasura 19:48, 8 August 2006 (EDT)

old Talk posts copied from Category_talk:Relic_Weapons
I must say.... these stats are unverifiable and ever (slowly) changing. But if your going to be posting this info at least don't abbreviate the server names. Thats just annoying. --NoOneLeft 13:40, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Unverifiable? Definitely, but it's not like NASA is relying on this chart for an upcoming launch or something. It's just information for fun and it's good enough as far as getting a broad picture. Worthwhile? Mileage may vary depending on who's reading. The server names are fine as they are though. The uniform abbreviation keeps playernames relatively lined up. Legibility-wise, I think it's much more annoying reading this:

Midgardsormr - This (livejournal entry) Midgardsormr - Isa Odin - Fake Odin - Playerwithareallylongassname Odin - Justfor Pandemonium - Thesakeofthisexample (pic) Pandemonium - Bear Pandemonium - Withme 

than this:

Midg - This (livejournal entry) Midg - Isa Odin - Fake Odin - Playerwithareallylongassname Odin - Justfor Pand - Thesakeofthisexample (pic) Pand - Bear Pand - Withme 

If I could, I would change the font to fixed-width. You are welcome to unabbreviate the server names if you want though. It's not really a big deal either way.--TP 13:35, 18 January 2007 (EST)

There are 3 people missing from the Hades list for Shield. I can confirm that there are at least 3 more on the server that aren't listed: Alldo (hell, I was requested to come to that Dynamis run to help fight shield). The current shell holder for excellence (forgive me, its late, and I can't remember his name to save my life). I also saw someone from AscendantSky with one, I can't remember his name either, only because I am really tired. I find it funny because two of them happened to be standing around the same place earlier this evening, as Excellence and AS were both getting ready to monopolize Limbus (we got SE Apollyon though, cause we're faster than Ex ;P)

I'm not so sure that this is the new definitive list on Relic, but it needs more maintenance. I see someone from Hades (Darill) having Mandau, which is funny, because his Dynamis LS (er, mine too) upgraded him AFTER Alldo's shield.(posted by Nix)

I don't get? I don't think it was ever claimed that this list was "definitive." Not sure that's even possible. And if you have missing info, why did you make the effort to post that and then proceed to NOT update the list? =/ --TP 03:49, 8 February 2007 (EST)

I clearly said I'm not sure if this is the definitive list... I dunno who decided to put this list in a talk page here, but I found the list a lot easier to find on the old site (bluegartr). Regardless, I mentioned at least one name there, so the information isn't exactly difficult to come by:

Hades: Alldo - Relic Shield Winterfeldt - Relic Shield

There is one more, but I don't have his name offhand. --Toxictaru 15:45, 8 February 2007 (EST)

The way you said it implied it was supposed to be definitive, which it clearly is not. Whether you found it easier to find at BG is rather moot. I don't think you understand the concept of having it moved here or the concept of the wiki in general. It's in this spot so that its maintenance doesn't have to rely solely on a single forum OP (a particularly good reason in this case, since I don't have my own net access to conveniently update on my own). Everybody can contribute and edit information here. To be clear, the names you mentioned can and should be inserted into the list above if you are willing to make that effort. Why you chose to post it down here instead is still unclear to me, but I'll go ahead and insert those myself. Please feel free to edit the list yourself in the future!

Besides that, it was suggested on BG itself that the list be moved here. Perhaps you mean to say that the list should be made into a seperate article instead of a subsection in the Talk section? That might be a good idea, but I honestly don't care if it remains here or gets "article-ized." If you wish, go ahead and suggest it to whoever runs this site. Also, believe it or not, that information actually IS difficult to come by, considering all the people who are NOT on Hades or privy to Hades-specific information.--TP 03:09, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Considering this list appears to have been MOVED from the BG forums. I would have to assume that whatever data contained here would have come from there. Considering the people I mentioned WERE on that old list, I have to wonder how it got removed. Honestly, I don't care. The OP doesn't want to maintain, but you can drop the attitude about it. I know the spirit of wiki, and honestly, your attitude about this is far from desirable. I put the names out there not once but twice, so regardless of whether or not you are on Hades, I think it was pretty clear that they have the aforementioned upgrades. Honestly, I think this list is pointless if no one is going to maintain it. If no one has any vested interested in this, its just going to be half-assed... it already feels that way anyway.

Another thing, you appear to have taken control over maintaining this list, fine. But I have to say, the 4 letter abbreviated versions of the server names IS incredibly obnoxious. But now that I think about it, this is just a talk page, if it was worth anything, it would be properly formatted and put on to its own actual entry. So you know what, whatever. I'm done with this crap. --Toxictaru 01:42, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Hmm, if I have shown you a poor attitude, then I'm sorry. But, I can't help but feel irritated at the unproductive way in which you post. There are a few points you made that I have issue with:

1) You claim that Alldo and Winterfeldt were on the original list(s).

I don't believe they were, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, I went ahead and double-checked to be sure. When I moved the list here, it was a straight copy and paste from BG to KI. Why do this? Well, the BG community is a bit of a closed gate as far as accepting newcomers. So I wanted a way to preserve the last version of the BG list without referencing BG itself. Hence the copy on KI, which I just checked. Neither Alldo nor Winterfeldt appeared on that list. I also checked senoska's out-of-date list. Not there either. So I can only conclude that either the copy-and-paste function of my computer miraculously deleted a portion containing exactly 2 specific lines or your claim is false.

2) You claim the 4 letter abbreviation is obnoxious.

That's fine. As I told the other poster, feel free to change it! I don't mind! I've already stated why I feel uniform abbreviation is good, but if people feel otherwise, then more power to them. That's what the wiki is for, to make changes that the whole community benefits from.

3) You claim the OP doesn't want to maintain and that I've taken control of the list.

That's also false for several reasons. First off, how could you know what another person wants or doesn't want? Second, I AM the OP, and I still want to and still do maintain this list when I have time/inclination. Not only that, but other people are helping to keep it up-to-date now as well. You can just click on the History tab at the top and see how many people are contributing.

And that's where my so-called attitude comes in. I just can't understand why? Why is it 20 other people can log in and edit this list to insert missing names quietly and graciously (a big Thank You to you all btw!), but you felt the need to complain about lack of maintenance? It's even worse that you had info that you could have contributed, but used it as ammo for your complaint instead of just making an entry like everybody else did? Note that I have not once doubted the veracity of your info, but rather urged you to enter that info yourself in the proper place! Instead, I had to go back and put the names in for you. It's not really a big deal to me, as I already do lots of corrections on others' entries (i.e. when people make an entry, but forget to update the tallies as well). I'm usually glad to make such corrections, but I have to admit that the original attitude you took annoyed me a good deal and came out in my replies. For that I'm sorry, as it's not my wish to make enemies, especially over something so trivial.

4) You claim the list is "half-assed" and not "properly formatted."

Well, I won't try to convince you about your own feelings. I'm sorry that you feel that way. But, compared to the first list on KI, senoska's error-ridden list, I feel this one is quite a bit cleaner. I've put in a lot of effort to give it proper headers, alphabetization, and even external links to other media (which was really quite a pain to me, as my grasp of HTML and the wiki system was very small, so getting the links to click took me quite some hours).

But again, we are back to our disagreement on the wiki concept. You felt the list was bad and your response was to complain about it. I also felt the list was bad at one point, but my response was to edit and fix it. I'll be frank. If you have time to write a complaint about 2 names missing from Hades, then you have time to also enter those 2 names into the list. Hell, you can do both if you want, but imo, there's absolutely no reason to do the former, but not the latter. It takes far less time and effort to make a couple list insertions than to write as much as you did in this Chatter section.

I hope I've explained myself thoroughly enough that we can end this discussion and leave the Chatter section to something more worthwhile.--TP 03:32, 25 February 2007 (EST)