Talk:Sorcerer's Ring

Beyone popular thinking, this ring is activated by base HP, not current HP, you do not have to have yellow HP in order for this to work.

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/9607/hp3jd.jpg -HP Gear. http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1219/nuke6ec.jpg Nuke Gear.

My -HP gear brings me down to 74.9% of my base HP; as you can see in my nuke gear 75% of my current HP would be 696, however I do not need to go down that far. 701/928 is not yellow HP, but it is 75% of base HP, and the ring still kicks in, ive done numerous tests, and has been confirmed by other BLMs. --SephirothYuyX 09:55, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

latent kicks in at 76% as well
my macros set my HP to 76% and i get the latent effect kicking in, it should be "76% HP or less" insted of "75% or less"

Try 80%
As per test results documented here:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=3050;mid=1158569585292455614

The tester worked out the exact hp for when the latent kicked in. It just happened to be at exactly 80% of current hp... not base hp.

Tests
I'm not sure what HP/MP convery gear you were using, but SephirothYuyX basically sums it up in a nutsell. I have not been able to have it active while under anything higher than 75% HP. While yes, maintaining white HP.--Charitwo 18:29, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Where?
Where exactly does he document his tests?

I can't seem to find anything on his userpage pointing to it. Does he ever show the exact 1 hp boundary for where it activates like Hapernack does? Does he even show what his base hp is? The screenshots listed in the top post all show a character with armor on that modifies HP.. even his nuking armor does.

Why not retest yourself?
If you're so sure it's 80%, you could always try a test yourself. On a nuetral day for Thunder with no weather, for example. Do a multitude of tests on a mob that has no consistent resist/weakness to that element. It's the only way to prove it otherwise. Also I would take information found at Allakhazam with a grain of salt, no offense. He was even doing his tests on Ebony Pudding, which are known to take a higher amount of magic damage than other mobs. Which could skew the results making it appear that the percentage activate was higher than originally thought to be correct. Which is why I suggest performing a similar test on mobs that do not take a higher than normal damage from nukes to get a more accurate assumption. --Charitwo 18:57, 23 February 2007 (EST)

hmm..
I have seen puddings incur a somewhat different amount of bonus damage depending on what "mode" they are in. I doubt that affected the tests... but i will retest myself on some other mob to be sure and report back.

Ok...

After extensive testing, i have figured out how to figure out your exact HP needed to activate this latent.

I can post screen pics if people really want to see.. but for now, i'll post a summary:

Testing was done on earthsday and watersday using blizzard 1 on wild rabbits in w. ron.

Testing was done initially with no equipment on except for sorc. ring.

What i discovered in this config is that the most accurate way to describe the percentage hp needed is: Less than 76%.

Example: Lets say you have 908 hp with no gear on. 75% of 908 is exactly 681, but you can get the latent to activate with more hp than this. 76% of 908 is 690.08, and 690 still activates the latent... but only because it is less than the exact (hp * 0.76). 691 does not activate the latent. If 76% fell on a whole number, you would have to have 1 hp less than that number.

9 hp may not seem like much, but when deciding between gear to activate this latent, it can make a difference.

Unfortunately, the calculations do not remain this simple when further armor is introduced. Certain armor you may find yourself nuking in takes away or adds hp.. other armor converts hp to mp or vice versa. My initial testing and the testing done by the poster on alla seemed to show 80% of current hp, but this was a false assumption arrived at by failing to do testing with varying types of armor on.

The "Less than 76%" description could be changed to "Less than 76% of current max hp" because any gear that adds or subtracts hp, such as penitents rope or rostrum pumps affects your starting value. So if you have 908 hp naked and add rostrum pumps, your current max hp drops to 878 and your latent activation hp drops from 690 to 667. This is only a problem if you nuke in rostrums of course. You could simply use rostrums for a maxmp configuration or as part of latent activation macro set.. and nuke in yigit... but its little things like this that tend to confuse people.

To add further confusion to this mix, gear that converts hp to mp does not affect the above calculations. If you are nuking with zenith hands on, you need to add that 50 or 55 hp back on to your current max hp to figure out your latent activation point. So even though your nuking with 858 max hp now instead of 908, your latent would still activate at 690 current hp. In fact, most races (other than galka and maybe elvaan) nuking in full zenith gear would have their sorcerer's ring latent active with full hp.

I also took a moment and verified that less 100tp is also a requirement.

Given these facts, "HP less than 76% of unconverted current max hp & less than 100 tp" - is what i would use to describe the latent trigger for this item and others like it.

If there is no further discussion in the following several days, i will alter the article to give it the above latent trigger description.

Less than 100 TP?
This test is all well and good, but, I would love to hear your explanation on why you believe TP is a factor in activating this latent. --Charitwo 16:53, 26 February 2007 (EST)

RE: Less than 100 TP?
BLMs might not care much about the TP requirements of this ring because they seldom find themselves with more than 0 TP and with the exception of farming or skillups, would never find themselves with 100 TP.

The TP requirement is mentioned here only for consistancy. All of the lvl 50 JSE rings have these same requirements and although some of them may find mention of the TP requirement useful and some not, for consistancy, it would be best to have the same explanation on all of them.

Eventually, after some more testing, i will be getting this latent page altered to reflect my finding.


 * If it's true, it is perhaps irrelevant to this particular ring. Maybe it would be best to leave it out of your article edit providing nobody else has anything else to add, as including it may further confuse others. --Charitwo 17:14, 26 February 2007 (EST)

I doubt the additional TP requirement would confuse anyone. If anything the overall complexity of the requirement statement is what might cause confusion.. but i can leave the TP requirement off the update just to please you and try to make the rest of it less confusing. Would you agree to the following text?

Notes: Latent effect is activated by having less than 76% HP (excludes HP modifications from HP -> MP gear). This can be obtained without going into yellow HP. For more detail on the latent requirement, please review the discussion area.

-- Olorin 18:12, 26 February 2007 (EST)


 * That looks alright to me, fixed some formatting issues in it, though.--Charitwo 18:18, 26 February 2007 (EST)