Talk:Summoner/Archive1

If you would like to add more Strengths and Weaknesses, Be brief.

If you would like to be more extensive in the length or detail of the Strength or Weakness, please add it to the Race and Subjob Guide linked at the bottom of the page. The purpose of the section on this page is merely to provide a brief look at the major strengths and weaknesses of the job. Please reserve more in depth discussions for the guide linked at the bottom.

--Mierin 12:41, 31 Jan 2006 (PST)

Couple of things into the weakness section: "The most MP expensive jobs" needs to have the s at the end removed. Secondly: Let's add "Astral Flow becomes progressively weaker as you level and becomes obsoliete at 70." or to the effect thereof. AF Blood Pacts are just pathetic at 70. The only thing that AF is used for at that level is to eliminate perpetuation costs. Disscuss. --Zero 20:26, 17 June 2006 (PDT) Um...what exactly is a negative about having a lot of MP? A SMN doesn't even necessarily need to get all the MP gear to be good. If you wanted to have the most MP ever, then you got a point when it comes to cost but in the end there aren't a lot of expenses on SMN. Austere gear and Elemental Staves at 50 and 51 are the only things you really need to buy. When it comes to Astral Flow, you have to find the right situations to use it. What is the mob weak to in terms of elemental magic? If you're using AF at full mana, you're not a bright SMN to begin with unless you're just having fun. :P In terms of damage, it still at 75 does comparable damage to the 70 BP's and a hell of a lot more if you manage to burst it. --Pinkfloyd 13:06, 31 July 2006 (PDT)

Has anyone gotten an invite as...
...anything not /whm? And if so, what? I've seen a few SMN/BLM from ppl who refuse to main heal, but that's still a rarity. I got SMN up to 37 for sub for RDM (hey, you never know), and I'd like to take it all the way but I also deteste main healing. Chernabog 06:39, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

summoning magic skill
I posted in the magic skill discussion, but replies yet. In 2005 didn't they make some BPs skill dependant now? Chernabog 22:50, 10 July 2006 (PDT) They talked about it at the event in Santa Monica but have yet to make that change. Pinkfloyd 12:56, 31 July 2006 (PDT)


 * BOO SE! Grr... Ok, thank you. Chernabog 10:06, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

S and W Changes
1000MP for an AoE spell that does less than your level 70 Blood Pacts is a joke and useless. On the other hand, Astral Flow's Perpetuation cost negation is still usefull at 75 where the associated Blood Pacts are not. Diablos is the only exception to this rule for his Ruinous Omen can knock off up to 99% of a mobs HP and I'll go out on a limb here and say that does include gods, kings and other HNMs. --Zero 22:37, 29 July 2006 (EDT)
 * Astral Flow Blood Pacts become comparitively weak and absurdly expensive in higher levels. (Diablos excluded)


 * I've not seen an AF in the high levels yet, but I'd wager that blowing a hundred or so MP (ie: when you're LOW ON MP) on an AF BP wouldn't be as sucky as you all make it out to be. Yes, it's foolish to use SMN 2hour at full MP. That's why you do it when you have less! /sigh Now, of course I say this without knowing how much MP you need to have minimum for the high level AFs to work... is it the same as before, or get scaled up? Chernabog 04:04, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

150 at 75 is the minimum cost of using an AFBP and it runs by the scale of your level multiplied by two. And yes, it's as bad as I'm describiing. Eldoran and Zidiane affirm this and Eldoran I've had actualy prove this to me. He did a Spinning Dive on a mob and hit for over 1200 damage with no TP. He releases and we shoot the breeze for a minute. He summons Levi again, uses Astral Flow then Tidal Wave for 800 and all his MP is gone as opposed to the cost of Spinning Dive (164). As with Eagle Eye Shot, as your level increases, the use of the AFBPs severely drop and excluding Diabolos are almost never used at 75. Judging by what you've said sofar in response to me, you've never really seen what it does at higher levels and probably should not comment about it. Astral Flow is not the god two-hour that it would seem to be to non-summoners. --Zero 06:20, 31 July 2006 (EDT) You obviously don't know how to use Astral Flow, Zero. Certainly it can be weaker than the 70 BP's in some spots but certainly not all. You just got to know where to use it. You're not really doing the job justice if you're doing Astral Flow with 1000 MP. It's only as bad as you describe because you don't know the proper situations to use AF's magical attacks. AF most of the time will still do around the same damage as the 70 BP's except for maybe Garuda and especially if you magic burst it. Pinkfloyd 12:53, 31 July 2006 (PDT) Then enlighten me. Certainly in those "Emergency situations" where you need to blow something up you're not going to have the proper SC ready to go on a whim. That's obvious. But then again, You need 150 MP to use a AFBP at 75, so why not just use one of the 70s and conserve a complete drain for something else (Such as your next BP). You, more or less, kinda affirmed my point. AFBP isn't used as much as offensive power as opposed to 70 Blood Pacts simply because of it's absurd cost. --Zero 02:07, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I did say right off the bat I've never seen it in action. Try and think of it as more a question to clarify your view on the AFBPs (which did kinda seem out of left field). You just basically said (paraphrasing) "AFBPs suck" without saying why (other than a ludicrous comment about blowing 1000 MP, which, if a SMN is doing that, something's wrong). Chernabog 10:16, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Weaknesses

 * "Astral Flow Blood Pacts become comparitively weak and absurdly expensive in higher levels. (Diablos excluded)"

How can this be reworded? It's only "absurdly expensive" if you like using AFBP at full MP...

How is it a weakness at all? If you have alternatives to using it, then its not a weakness. --Chrisjander 11:05, 5 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I dont see it as a big weakness of the job, but some ppl do (Zero for example). Its certainly not as powerful at higher levels... But there are useless 2hours (like Mijin Gakures only real good use as a free warp or avoiding XP loss). Chernabog 00:43, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, it should probably just be removed, every two hour has its uses, and situations where it has no use. SMN has an enviable position on having one of the most powerful 2hrs for use in BCNMs, so I don't see how it being limited elsewhere makes it an overall weakness. --Chrisjander 00:59, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Another one. "*Most buffing abilities serve only as a minor damage reduction." This is a weakness? Chernabog 05:41, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
 * No discussion on this, my vote would be to remove it. Most buffing abilities are only minor damage reduction... Chernabog 23:38, 10 August 2006 (EDT)