Talk:Nyzul Isle Investigation

Avoid Detection
I can confirm that using ranged attack does not count as detection as we did not get a time penelty or any debuff from pulling a gear Ferine 17:21, 10 March 2007 (EST)

The Pathos received from being detected may be related to who was detected. A SMN in my group was detected and the Pathos received was a temporary ban on summon magic, which was lifted when we moved to the next floor.--Coflsilk 15:29, 12 March 2007 (EDT)


 * I've received a Blue Magic restriction, and we had no BLU in our party. --Tinuvael 13:55, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

For "eliminate the specified enemy", is the "specified enemy" always Impossible to Gauge? If so, maybe it's sufficient to simply say that, instead of the more long-winded explanation about multiple enemies from the same family. --Divisortheory 13:15 March 7, 2006 (EST)

For "Eliminate specified enemies," we had a floor where we had to kill Qiqirn. In that case, all types of Qiqirn (Qiqirn Treasure Hunters and Qiqirn Archaeologists) had to be eliminated to unlock the Rune of Transfer. --Tinuvael 00:39, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Specified Enemy (singular) will be one mob that checks Impossible to Gauge. I did not notice a size difference of this mob compared to others in its family. Specified Enemies (plural) will be a family of monsters that all check Impossible to Gauge. Note that Gears and Ramparts will check Impossible to Gauge, but are not included in this. Enemy Leader (singular) will be one Named, Impossible to Gauge mob of larger-than-normal size. Sneak and Invisible may be used to move past unneeded mobs. Normal Vana'diel aggro rules seem to apply, though sneaking/invissing past gears and ramparts was not tested (i.e. No mobs showed to be True Sight/Sound excepting those that would normally be so outside of Assault. Again, gears and ramparts were not tested).--Coflsilk 15:29, 12 March 2007 (EDT)


 * We tried sneaking past an Archaic Gear (single) with Sneak/Invisible up. No one used abilities or magic near it, but we got aggro when someone past it. I'm pretty sure they're True Sight/True Sound in Salvage, so this would not be surprising. --Tinuvael 13:59, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Tokens Awarded
Number of points per floor was 180 for a 4-player group without penalties. Unsure whether the amount rewarded increases as you get higher up; we only made it up to floor 3. It's probably a base 200 points (3 players) per successful floor. --Tinuvael 00:35, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Question
Where do Long-Gunned Chariot, Long-Horned Chariot, Battledressed Chariot, and Shielded Chariot fit in? "Eliminate enemy leader."? --Joped 10:17, 10 March 2007 (EST)

EDIT: Also, what does "Chariots" mean? The enemies are just called "Chariot" or it can include Racing Chariot and the 4 I listed above? --Joped 11:55, 10 March 2007 (EST)

EDIT2: Racing Chariots + Archaic Ramparts are in the same "Eliminate specified enemies." together like the Qiqirn treasure hunters and archaeologists? --Joped 11:58, 10 March 2007 (EST)

"Chariots" just means "any mob from the chariot family". The link itself redirects to the category page also. Now that I think about it though, it may be better to put only Racing Chariot, and add the others as we find them. I was only fixing the dead link. --Divisortheory 12:00, 10 March 2007 (EST)

After some thinking, I think my most recent edit more accurately reflects what's going on. You aren't after enemies with particular names, you're after enemies from a particular family. In the case of Qiqirns for example, you may have to kill multiple Qiqirns with different names. In other words, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that when "eliminate specified enemies." is the object, there will never be a situation where killing only some of the enemies from a particular family will unlock the rune of release, but others (perhaps with a different name), need not be killed." If this is incorrect, we can change it again, perhaps stating for each enemy family whether or not it's possible for the mobs to have different names.  --Divisortheory 12:50, 10 March 2007 (EST)

An edit conflict happened; this is what I was going to say: Why did you change it to "enemy families"? (You just answered that.) If they can only come as maybe 1-2 enemies, I'd say the specific names of the enemies look better. However, if they can come as a whole bunch of stuff (like 3 or 4+ different names), then just the familiy is nicer (like how you made it now). Also, Qiqirn plural is usually "Qiqirn" without "s". --Joped 13:01, 10 March 2007 (EST) Anyway, I think if it's only a handful of different names, the specific names just look like there's more information on this page, but that's just what I think. I just feel it's like saying "there's a whole bunch of undead here" for Eldieme and "loads of arcana are in this region" for Tu'Lia rather than putting the specific enemies (okay, not a great comparison since you'd want to know the levels and drops for those mobs). Maybe you could put "Enemies that are not of the same family of the specified enemies do not need to be eliminated." or whatever. --Joped 13:01, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Yea, I agree it's a little confusing now. Maybe we'll know more after higher floors are reached. The only thing I know for sure right now is that "sometimes" you may have to kill enemies with different names. The way the multiple enemies were on the same line though made it confusing to me. Namely, someone looking at it for the first time with no knowledge of this discussion would think "wait, why are these on the same line and others aren't?" But if you put them on different lines people might kill one and think "the wiki's wrong, it said I had to kill all Qiqirn Treasure Hunter and that didn't work." If you just say "kill all mobs from the specified family, here are the families to look for" there's never any confusion, and it most likely covers all floors in Nyzul Isle, even the much higher ones. I guess it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, as long as anyone looking at it will know exactly what to do upon reading it. --Divisortheory 13:11, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Hmmm, maybe put and/& between them so you know you have to kill both? Now that I think of it, "/" kinda makes you think "or", as if you can choose which to kill or it varies. How about:
 * Imps (Heraldic Imps)
 * Soulflayers (Psycheflayers)
 * Poroggos (Poroggo Gents)
 * Flan (Ebony Puddings)
 * Qiqirn (Qiqirn Treasure Hunters & Qiqirn Archaeologists)
 * Chariots (Racing Chariots)

And then if more enemies are discovered, someone could just put them in the parantheses (if they belong to an already given family). I'm also thinking ramparts are unrelated to this objective. --Joped 13:24, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Compiling/dividing stuff
I think we should compile the mobs found here and divide them by this:

Alzadaal Normal Monsters: -Imps/flayers/frogs/flan/rats/chariots. -These enemies are used for "Eliminate specified enemies." (Excluding gears and ramparts?)

Alzadaal Notorious Monsters: -Imp/flayer/frog/flan/rat/chariot NMs. -These enemies are used for "Eliminate enemy leader."

Vana'diel Normal Monsters: -Basically, these aren't NMs completely stolen from "outside", but they are regular enemies from "outside". -These enemies are used for "Eliminate specified enemy."

Vana'diel Notorious Monsters -NMs completely stolen from "outside". -They can leave behind some of their items you usually find from them. -Aren't used for any objective and instead are the "rewards" of this Assault area?

Other Monsters -Gears and ramparts... -Gears: Used as a subobjective. -Ramparts: Maybe they're just here to explain why Vana'diel normal/notorious mobs are here. -Maybe they should be listed under "Alzadaal Normal Monsters"?

Also, do "Eliminate specified enemy." mobs have their species's typical NM-size that would make them easier to find other than via /check? --Joped 15:49, 10 March 2007 (EST)

EDIT: Also, does each floor have a random "theme"? I heard one floor had eruca/spinners/tigers/marids (Wajaom-themed). That could be another way to divide stuffs. Also, maybe I'm remembering something incorrectly, but I recall somebody mentioning one floor having a garden/plantoid theme. --Joped 15:51, 10 March 2007 (EST)

EDIT2: Could anyone provide the jobs of the 3 Qiqirn NMs and the elements of the 8 custards if the jobs/elements do vary? --Joped 22:42, 10 March 2007 (EST)

EDIT3: Can archaic gears come as gear solos AND trios or just single gears? --Joped 16:27, 12 March 2007 (EDT)


 * I've seen a gear trio. The solos seem to be more common. --Tinuvael 14:01, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Enemy Leader Stuff
Figured I'd compile enemy leader special abilities, since it seems that enemy leaders of the same type might have different abilities for each NM. Basically, this shows what makes, says, encountering Mokka different from encountering Mokke, and why there are 3/4/8 different NMs for each non-HNM enemy leader type. Anyway, please fill it in:

Poroggo Madames/Don Poroggos/Samariris/Whatever you wish to call them
I just gave reported Poroggo NM abilities to the first 2 since no one was specific on their names. Uriri: Spams Sleepga + Silencega Eriri: Spams Poisonga + Frog Chorus Oriri: ???

Flan/Custards
They might only cast black magic corresponding to their element; by "physical" I mean they're like the W/E Empathetic Flan in the Bhaflau Remnants and by "magical" I mean they're like the N/S Empathetic Flan in the Bhaflau Remnants. Ginger: Earth-based Anise: Ice-based Cumin: Lightning-based Nutmeg: Water-based Mint: Wind-based Cinnamon: Fire-based Caraway: Light-based Vanilla: Darkness-based

(Vile) Soulflayers
Wahdaha: ??? Ineef: ??? Yadeewa: ???

Imps/Devilets
Mokke: ??? Mokka: ??? Mokku: ???

Qiqirn
Sasaroon: Ranger Roorooroon: Thief Gagaroon: Black Mage

Chariots
Shielded: Whatever the Armored Chariot's special attack is. Battledressed: Discoid Long-Horned: Brainjack Long-Gunned: Homing Missile, Double Attack/Attack Bonus

Activate All Lamps
It seems that the number of lamps present for the 'activate all at the same time' is not scaled to your party size. I went in with 3 others and found that there were at least 5-6 lamps. As the lamps do not stay active for more than a few seconds if you hit them, it seems that sufficient planning and clearing may be required in order to activate every lamp with a smaller group.--Coflsilk 15:17, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

-I can't say for sure, but I added something to the page today under the 'activate the lamps in a specefic order' case. It might be related to this, but I haven't seen the 'activate all lamps' version yet. In that case, its only when ALL lamps have been activated that they lit up. If you try to activate one you already tagged before, it says a different message. When all of them been tagged, they all lit up for a moment, and if its the wrong order they turn off. I can't say if its related, but it might provide a clue. Do they lit up right away when clicked? If not, it might be safe to think that you only need to activate once each to open the Runic Portal. -Celedh 15h36 12 march 2007 (EDT)

When the lamps were selected, a window would pop up that said something to the order of "All lamps must be activated at the same time. Do you want to activate this lamp?". The lamp light up if 'yes' is selected, but will turn itself off after about 10 seconds if all other lamps are not activated at the same time. A cool-down period of about ~30 seconds or so is then required in order to be able to activate the lamp again. I would assume that the 'activate in the correct order" lamps would have a message saying that they needed a certain order. --Coflsilk 22:20, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

NMs that spawn on each block of floors
It seems like particular NMs spawn on each "set" of floors. Let's start tracking which spawn where. --Aurikasura 13:48, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Update: pulled the "theoretical" mob list from the zone datfile. Remove the verification tag if you see this NM on the correct floor.

Floors 1-20: Bat Eye Shadow Eye Bomb King Juggler Hecatomb Smothered Schmidt Hellion Leaping Lizzy Tom Tit Tat Jaggedy-Eared Jack Cactuar Cantautor Gargantua Gyre-Carlin Asphyxiated Amsel Frostmane Peallaidh Carnero Falcatus Aranei Emergent Elm

Floors 21-40: Old Two-Wings Aiatar Intulo Orctrap Valkurm Emperor Crushed Krause Stinging Sophie Serpopard Ishtar Western Shadow Bloodtear Baldurf Zizzy Zillah Ellyllon Mischievous Micholas Leech King Eastern Shadow Nunyenunc Helldiver Taisaijin

Floors 41-60: Fungus Beetle Friar Rush Pulverized Pfeffer Argus Bloodpool Vorax Nightmare Vase Daggerclaw Dracos Northern Shadow Fraelissa Roc Sabotender Bailarin Aquarius Energetic Eruca Spiny Spipi Trickster Kinetix Drooling Daisy Bonnacon Taisaijin

Floors 61-80: Golden Bat Steelfleece Baldarich Sabotender Mariachi Ungur Swamfisk Buburimboo Keeper of Halidom Serket Dune Widow Odqan Burned Bergmann Tom Tit Tat Tyrannic Tunnok Bloodsucker Tottering Toby Southern Shadow Sharp-Eared Ropipi Taisaijin

Floors 81-100: Panzer Percival Vouivre Jolly Green Tumbling Truffle Capricious Cassie Amikiri Stray Mary Sewer Syrup Unut Simurgh Pelican Cargo Crab Colin Wounded Wurfel Peg Powler Tom Tit Tat Jaded Jody Maighdean Uaine Taisaijin

Is there something similar with normal monsters? Anyway, we should really just add an "Enemies" section at the top like other Assault mission pages and divide them similar to how I suggested earlier. --Joped 15:10, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

At this point I'm pretty sure this analysis is right. My group is up to the 40-60 block and so far all the NM spawns have lined up with my projection. --Aurikasura 14:09, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Number of participants
Has anyone tried doing any set of floors with less than 6 people? Does it have an impact on the objectives given or the number of monsters or anything? If not, it would seem pointless to allow a minimum of 3 if 3 ppl can't complete 5 objectives. Tahngarthor 23:47, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I have done 3 runs with 4 people total and 4 runs with 6 people (only 1 of the 6 person runs cleared 5 floors). Full parties definitely make running the floors a lot easier. Having only 4 people greatly increases the difficulty of the "defeat all enemies" and "activate all (multiple) lamps at the same time". The objectives were not noticed to be scaled down in any manner (we had more lamps than party members in activate all at once). That being said, I would imagine that a group of 3-5 could clear a set of 5 floors if the objectives cooperated, such as single lamp activation, specified enemy, enemy leader or a free floor. Unless you have some really heavy DD who know what they are doing or are just looking for some possible NMs, I personally wouldn't go in without a full party. Having fewer people will probably mean that you'll want to push as hard as possible, probably resulting in pushing for a last floor and getting ejected, losing all tokens. I don't know what SE was thinking when they made this 3-6 players, but the only way you can really clear with 3-4 is by having extremely good luck.--Coflsilk 10:18, 28 March 2007 (EDT)