Talk:2008 - (08/25/2008) New Level Sync Feature to Change the Way You Party!

Chat
o_o  O_O    Thank you Square --Lordshadow 18:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Very creative idea. It will certainly make it easier for me to help people doing level-capped battles (especially those annoying L50 caps, so tough to find equipment for them.)

The equipment reduction will have to be carefully balanced though. If it's too strong, then there's no reason to wear it in capped areas other than looks. If it's too weak, then even level-capped areas begin to fall like wheat to heavily-equipped 75s.

Also, this nearly completely obsoletes the Guide Beret.

One final curiousity... I wonder if having your level being reduced to below 60 or 50 will remove the part of gaining 250/300 exp from a single kill. --Taeria Saethori 18:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the exp caps will be in place without a doubt.

Most discussions I have seen of this have centered on lvl 75 chars joining much lower level groups but don't forget the cases where you're 5/6 and the only tank lfp is two levels too high, or when you are at a camp and someone dings and starts gimping the exp, that's when this is going to be really handy! -- 18:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't really think about that, it's a very good point. It's also good if your party really needs a Red Mage or Bard in similar circumstances.

There are just a lot of situations where the effect of this is unknown, so I think Level Sync will undergo a lot of testing by the player base. --Taeria Saethori 18:41, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I foresee the rebirth of Statics as a result of this. My only worry is that 6 people Sync to level 10 and have a level 75 PL standing over them, and just constantly rotate a level 10 job through the party...--Ctownwoody 19:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally believe this is one of the better ideas SE has come up with the retain its fan base, on a side note I can see an explosion of Maat's Cap characters. As it is much easier to get a pt on almost every job if you can all be in the same level range. Rosskatz 09:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe this will be great for people who invite there friends ingame but don't need to level a new job for them. I just got a friend in the game this week and when this comes out me and my current RL friend playing are going to duo and party as much as we can. good job SE this is a great additon to the game. Giving new charater experince without being baby sat by a pl the whole way and the vertern players something to do and help thier friends and LS mates.

This will do two things. Help keep level gaps from being an annoyance, and get some more people into Sea. The biggest problem with CoP was the equipment lock it'd put on you. Now that you can ride in with your 75 equipment into Promyvion - Mea, I bet we'll see end game get a lot more full. Thank you Square-Enix, this more than makes up for PW and the Tidal Talisman. --Fiye 20:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

??Dune Merit party?? Does this mean a lv.75 can go into the Dunes and help mates, and at the same time level merits? I love this plan it would work great in lvl cap fights,but ingame? Plus it means a cleaner Mog house and more stuff on AH to buy that you could never find. Also i see alot of RMT skilling up this way. -- 07:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Ctownwoody - The only problem with rotating in a level 10 to keep the party that level is that eventually people will have leveled the job up and say they level up 5 times while capped. Thats 5 levels of Skill ups they lost, Because you can't gain skill ups while your skill is capped in a Level Restricted zone. (If I remember Correctly). So constantly partying in a Synced level party will eventually have draw backs if you don't have your skills already capped. --Nuala Phoenix 07:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I think this will be a good thing over all. People seem to centering on balance of power and RMT abuse. Even if the RMTs use this to thier advantage, they will have to spend hours and hours Skilling up Magic and Combat skills. I been mentioning this for 2 years. a LVing capping device. Ppl also will njow see the advantage to goin to LV cap areas, like the Pso Xja towers and Sacrarium .--MIKUMARU 15:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Change
Personally, I think this is too much of a drastic change for the game, although I do agree that it is completely necessary. Finding a party any lower than level 40 is extremely difficult these days, so it will make leveling lower level jobs a lot easier as well as adding the ability to play with friends of all levels.

Aside from that, I want to understand to what degree the scaling down on items will be like. For instance, if I am leveling in Valkurm dunes at level 10, what will happen to my Royal Cloak or Prism Cape and will the new stats be displayed on a /check? Any thoughts on that? -- Fawkes. 20:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * As for the regular stats HP, MP, etc... they'll be reduced by a percentage. I'm not sure exactly how much. But I don't think you'll be getting the refresh effect from a Vermy/Royal cloak in the at level 10. That will probably be one of those "negated" effects they were mentioning in the article. -- 20:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Attributes that will be affected include: DMG, DEF, HP, MP, Status Effects, Accuracy+, Attack+, Ranged Accuracy+, Ranged Attack+, Magic Accuracy+, and Magic Attack+" From what I can assume, anything that fits into that group will be scaled. Anything outside it (+Treasure Hunter, +Madrigal, "Refresh", "Regen", Enhances Wyvern Breath, etc...) will be erased. Nice balanced change, and if all goes right, we'll see lots of help going around. Whether it be for BCNMs, CoP, Capped Assaults, or etc... --Fiye 20:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The funny thing about this is that now parties will be easier to form than ever with competent players, and people will still demand a PL to level in Valkurm :P. --DarkTrance 20:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I bet there will be plenty of mistakes. Watch people complain about their Cassie Earring not doing what it's supposed to do. -- Fawkes. 20:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why wouldn't their Cassie Earring work? Presumably it only scales down equipment that you otherwise wouldn't be able to wear...it would be silly if you were synced from level 60 to level 50 and your level 30 back piece got nerfed.  Cassie is level 1, it'll never scale, I'll eat my hat if this isn't how it works. --Shinrai 23:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I think Fawkes just meant that it'll have some bugs in the implementation, not the actual plan on how it works. Many things added to MMOs like this have unforeseen side-effects, but we know SE will followup if these appear - Hiachi 00:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I think this will really best used by level 75 players partnering up with their lower-level buds, because when you're level capped, your skills are capped, too, and you won't gain any skill ups. So if you cap yourself and gain enough EXP in Dunes to go from 50 to 60, you'll still have the skills of a level 50 player. If you were to actually use this system to level, and not just to team up with your friends on occasion, your skills will become really gimp, really fast. --Anobi 02:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but it's nothing Campaign isn't already doing. Yes, they'll need to skill up, but maybe it won't be so inconvenient. --Taeria Saethori 02:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Even if you have to skill up repeatedly, the fact that you can finally party with your friends is revolutionary. --Burney 10:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Too little too late
i love how after years of asking for things we are finally getting some of them just because they are losing subscribers to quickly.Littledarc 20:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Instead of trolling, could you care to share with the rest of us your figures on the subscriber base in the last 6 months? 12 months? Let's be constructive, not cavil. -- 21:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * For anyone that doesn't know, ffxiah.com has an economic index with a server comparison graph. now if you've been following it since it came out you will note that there are significantly less transactions now there there were a year ago, ect ect. also you can take a look at the /sea all function and notice that there are less players on your server than there were a year ago, ect. ect. i'm 100% positive im not the only one that has noticed a drop in population, so my comment was legitimate. thank you.--Littledarc 16:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Because ppl parsing data always report accurate results? Also the reduction in number of subscribers and "AH transactions" as you so quaintly put it is in large part do to the overall decline of RMT activites. Further more what could be described on our servers as a Recession, would explain the lower resulting transactions. Recessions always lead to cuts in spending, FFXI is not privy from the laws of economics. Besides i don't understand how using the graph reported from a 3rd party site is teh basis of emperical proof, nor how the argument of economics accounts for transversal usage of a server, there are many low lvls whom do not make use of the Jeuno AH as of yet, so your loosing out on nearly 1/2 of the server transactions. Instead try using Census data to better argue your point next time. Milotheshort 16:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * you haven't been looking at your server's /sea all function have you? all data is third party data. in fact most data COMES from parsing. did you really think SE would tell you the accuracy percentage or the attack percentage on a food? all that stuff is parsed from real players, so i guess all of the wiki is inaccurate from your point of view. as far as RMT activities are concerned, they have been banning people for awhile now and this takes the influx of new rmt into account. what i dont think people are taking into account is that actual people are leaving too. people leave for WoW, AoC, real life, ect. this is one of the WORST times to be a new player simply because there is nobody to play with at lower levels. take that into account and many new players may quit before they can actually enjoy the game. a few of my friends i got onto the game quit for the exact reason. by the way, FFXIAH also has a character total on their database/community site which has been decreasing steadily also. but once again, third party...so nevermind.--Littledarc 17:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

While I have indeed said all those things listed as Feedback, this isn't what I had in mind. I can't see it working and I in no way can see how SE think this will reduce powerleveling. If anything it invites it. --Vuclutout 20:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, someone is more likely to PL if a group of friends asks and not just one person. -- Fawkes. 01:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't understand how a higher level can PL you under this system. Your level will be decreased to theirs, loosing your 75 stats and abilities, and your gear will be scaled down to a point where it is as powerful as other gear of the level of the target. They even mentioned themselves that players with High Quality or "rare" gear of the corresponding level will be better equipped than those that has been scaled down. The 75 won't be doing all the work, he'll be merely contributing just like the rest of the team, in a similar proportion.--Lionix

you have obviously never been PL'd. The PL remains outside the party --Vuclutout 22:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Then your post makes no sense, if you are referring to the regular form of Power Leveling then this system does not affects it in any way, meaning it doesn't invites it. By level capping a bunch of RMT while someone Power Levels them doesn't helps them at all, it holds them back from reaching the levels they need to farm.--Lionix

Poor SquareEnix... Making another mistake. First, none of the actual good stats are being truncated as shown by the example things like Magic Accuracy are still around. Could you imagine a level 10 blm with Morrigan walking around? That is just stupidly overpowered. Second, this just makes things harder to find camps especially for soloer jobs and makes jobs that rarely get a party, more so. Third, and probally the most important, is it encourages noobness. People will not learn thier job properally and maybe only learn how to play thier job up to level 50... That is pretty sad and stupid. What I would suggest is make it perhaps five or so levels cap sync that way it would ASSIST filling in the holes. -- Duckheady


 * A level ten with Morrigan's would be, while slightly more powerful, probably not much more so - likely only 1 point in all the normal stats, and I think the Refresh and MAB would be cut out entirely. I do, however, somewhat agree with your point on people learning their jobs.  A person can basically get there character to 75 only using the abilities or spells of a level 10, which is just inviting endgame people who have no idea what they're doing.  Hopefully most endgame groups will turn away these people until they really learn their jobs, but...  either way, ouch.  On the other hand, levelling in a static or self-restricting yourself to players three or four levels lower than you might make this not hit as hard - though I think the players smart enough to do that wouldn't be the ones for whom this would be a problem anyway.  I think SE meant well and kinda had the right idea, but missed by a bit.  --FFXI-Ironside 22:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Lionix... no offense but what on earth are you talking about? A group of higher level characters, 60+ that couldn't normally be PL'd very well, could simply go to Valkurm Dunes, go under level cap with some level 15, and get easy experience with very little loss from death and all with a volunteer PL outside the party. --Vuclutout 22:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

In response to Vuclutout: I could also see a little more usefulness for PLs. If say you want to xp in the dunes and there's no other mage around, you could xp on you mage like normal. If a member in your group dies, leave party, raise, rejoin party. You're still getting the xp you want and the party still has a sort of PL. Natsuchii 22:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

You guys are thinking way too much about the "possible" flaws instead of the wonderful benefits that the Level Sync system has to offer. At the moment, it all seems to me like it will work really well. So a level 10 warrior in your party dies, and you, being a level 75 white mage, go ahead and leave the party and raise him. Is this really a flaw? I think not. I think it fixes the hassle of having to shout for a raise for your level 10 buddy just so you can get back to gaining experience points. And this really only happens up until level 25. I do not see how this encourages people doing more PLing when the PL could instead be gaining experience himself with the party he or she might possibly be PLing. Ksayyah 00:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)Ksayyah

Yeah, I really like this addition; the only bad things I can see in this is bugs/glitches not intended. The system does not force you to play the game any differently: you can still just pt with people actually within your level range, and still use gear at the level you are capped at when you enter a capped area. This is the best kind of addition - one allows people to do things easier/better but without requiring you to change anything if you do not wish - Hiachi 01:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

One thing I'm seeing a lot is the problem of having a higher level just dropping down to level 10 and killing stuff at level 10 to get their experience. However, last time I checked I get a heck of a lot more experience per hour than I did at 10. I seem to remember a lot of difficulty back then... If anything, the balancing act of this feature is the fact that as you gain more and more abilities, you can attack faster, stronger, and better, resulting in chain 10+'s at 75 range. At each level interval, fights become (on average) faster and faster, eventually getting to that awe-inspiring point of masterful bard pulling. In the end, it really does become a drag on the potential exp gaining abilities of higher levels therefor a less gratifying experience. Thus leaving this new feature in the hands of parties decreasing the level spread and higher-ups wanting to help out their friends.--Delvish.Ind 02:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well said. When you can get 300-400 exp per kill as a 50-something, why bother with 100 per kill as a level 10? I can't see bona fide players grinding their way from 10 to 20/30/40 etc by leveling well below their natural level. They're going to want to explore new areas, use new spells and abilities, and take on new challenges. This is a perfect solution for Linkshells. I'm sure we've all needed an assist with a quest, mission, Limit Break, etc. when all our Linkshell buddies are too high to be bothered. Now they have an incentive. RMT's might enjoy this feature for another reason though. Pick a zone with a bunch of mobs with a lucrative drop, and you'll probably find RMT's of various levels farming it. Not that that's anything new--they're already there, but now they'll get EXP too.--Gorbyofodin 03:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've just had way too much of the ignorance of people complaining about a good thing. Noone in their right mind will try to make it to 75 while capped at 10. Just listen to yourselves. Who would want to be lv. 75, and have the skill levels (Magic Skills, combat skills, etc) of someone lv. 10. could you imagine the amount of work that'd take? Also, on the PL'ing issue: There shouldn't be too much of a problem, talking about level 75 people dropping down and getting a PL to help them get exp fast? If anyone here has been in a burn party they'll understand that dropping to level 10, 15, 20, or even 50 would drop the amount of exp possibly gained. Now, about the magic acc complaint, they would severely drop it, and yes it was dropped (note it was red?). Any lv. 75 gear capped at level 10 with all the eva +, Enmity+/-, Enhanced JA's and added traits removed will be pretty darn worthless lol, just won't need to buy the gear at that level. If anyone sees a flaw in my logic please mention it and I'll try to see your side of things. --Pikel-kun 03:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Tapped it on the head there Pikel-kun. As for people saying "they'll be no camps", are you outright blind? You have the whole scale of 10-75 to play with, At the moment, YOU DONT. Most camps are taken at merit pt's. the all famous bird camp, only 2 slots, they go fast, otherwise it's to Imps which suck, so you can group off to other locations and just invite 1 person to level sync to. Whole range. Plus as a 61 DNC, I never ever ever ever get invites, I pretty much did 50-60 in campaign, so now I don't need to worry bout leveling around my own level barrier. As for being over powered, jesus, what difference is 1-2 stats going to make, AT VALKURM DUNES level, it doesnt make -any- difference, thats why people try not use food at low levels, it's pointless, mob has to little hp, and you have a pretty set base dmg, especially if your skills are capped. And I'm pretty sure most stuff like MAB from Morrigans would Just go to 0 at lv 10-20, maybe 1 at 20, theres a head item with +3 at lv 30ish, dont see whole server ending because of that. --Siion 10:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Job Abilities, Traits, and Magic
As I was reading about the new level sync I didn't see anything discussing SE matching Job Abilities, Traits, and Magic with the level sync. At first I thought they would allow the abilities and so on to match that of your original level but then it made no sense to me. So I assume that it will be similar to a level cap zone or event with the change in equipment? --Aionn, 25 August 2008


 * Job Abilities, Traits, and Magic would match the level in which you are restricted to. -- 23:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah I don't see them letting a level 10 use something like convert. It'll be the same as it would in a capped BCNM. -- Fawkes. 23:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

NQ/HQ Item Scaling
What are everyone's ideas on the difference between a high level NQ/HQ item that grants bonuses such as MND, INT, and CHR. What I mean is, will some items only give lower level bonuses if they are HQ?

Example: Prism Cape gives MND+4 INT+4 CHR+4. Let's say this converts to MND+1 INT+1 CHR+1 when worn on a level 10 character. If this happens at all, then it would make sense for a Rainbow Cape to grant nothing but defence, HP and MP at level 10.

If you actually understand what I mean in anyway (If not I will try to re-write this), what are your thoughts? -- Fawkes. 23:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

My theory on this is that it won't be a flat point for point rescale. For example in your situation, your giving a (hypothetically) level 40 armor with STR+4 and downsizing that equipment 1 for 1 down to 10, giving it a STR+1. My theory is more of a ratio base, say taking that STR+4 and bringing it down to a level 18 cap, thus causing the end strength to be STR+1.8. Said ratio still works under your theory though. However, I don't believe said additions will be necessarily displayed and will be more of a 'hidden' stat, the shown stat being a rounded stat. In the end I may have just done nothing more than further elaborate your point, but more clarity never hurts. --Delvish.Ind 00:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I would hope that HQ items keep there bonuses over NQ. For example, a lvl 40 NQ item gives STR+4 but its HQ item gives STR+5. If the player is dropped to level 10 the NQ item gives STR+1 and the HQ item gives STR+2. --Bigdavie 01:20, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, and perhaps some items will have differences (when level sync is in use) similar to that of the Alumine Haubert Set and the Luisant Haubert Set; my point being that the Alumine Haubert Set has no benefits beside defence. -- Fawkes. 01:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Have I got this right? I can bring out my level 51 elemental staves as a level 30 player for a Promyvion, for example? So if I'm naturally a level 30 WHM/SMN, I can take advantage of those tasty hidden stats like reduced MP for keeping Carbuncle out, and beefed up cures, but only take a reduction in the damage and stat bonuses? What will this do to the economy? I could just skip buying or crafting lower level gear, use the high-level gear (however gimped), and watch its abilities grow with me. There should be some restriction--say you can't equip the gear unless you're naturally at/above the item's intended level. Otherwise, level 10's will RMT the gil to buy their level 75 gear, and never visit the AH again. :Gorbyofodin 03:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From the article, "Equipment will be scaled down"... I really don't think they're going to let people equip things over their natural level, and such isn't even hinted at in the article. Just that if they already have it, it won't be unequipped from them because of the level cap, merely toned down. --Taeria Saethori 03:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From what I've read, you have it wrong. Aside from the fact that the hidden effects on the staves might not exist under a level sync effect, you must have a level 51+ job under the sync in the first place to even equip the staves. Also, the bonuses from the individual staves will probably be negated on a character much lower than 51 (if allowed at all). -- Fawkes. 03:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Aha, that makes more sense.--Gorbyofodin 03:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Level Sync Addition
I read that this feature wasn't going to be implemented into the game until later (after the update). Does anyone know how much later? And when in September are they actually updating? -- Fawkes. 01:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

"The FFXI development team is proud to announce the "Level Sync" system, a revolutionary new feature in the upcoming version update that will allow all players—grizzled veterans and novices alike—to adventure and gain experience together regardless of level differences!"

The date of the September version update has not yet been announced. So no, we don't know when in September they are actually updating (though if they stay true to form, it will be early in the week of the 2nd week of the month). --Seeko 02:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Issue with NM Camping
I can see this update causing a new fad, real easily. A LS decides to camp certain NM's for the drops. But don't want to waste time not earning anything during the placeholder slaughtering. They get a member to come as a job thats low enough to get good XP off the placeholders. Once the NM pops they claim and kite it till Sync wears off (30 seconds) Then slaughter the NM for the drop. Wouldn't surprise me if it starts happening at NM's like VE and such. --Nuala Phoenix 07:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this really any worse than the way things are now? I mean, they'll still camping and slaughtering them... --Shinrai 16:21, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

And you have to keep in mind that most people there are going to be there for the specific drop or drops, and will be more concerned with that then about working on their buffer while waiting for the NM to pop. --Burney 17:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

MPK
Anyone else think this might open the door to MPK again?

Example: RDM75 in a party with a BLM10 (BLM is party leader) in Valkurm Dunes. The BLM waits until the RDM is in front of a goblin that wouldn't normally aggro a level 75 player. When the RDM is in place, the BLM syncs the levels and the RDM75 is now a RDM10 and in aggro range of a goblin, attacked and defeated.

Does anyone else see this happening at all? -- Fawkes. 15:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

i am pretty sure ppl wont MPK PT Memebers --MIKUMARU 15:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that you can't force somebody ELSE to level sync (which is to say, I'm sure individuals can probably disable it). --Shinrai 16:22, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

BCNM/Mission Fight Caps

 * Level Sync cannot be used in areas or events where a separate level restriction already applies.

Was wondering if this means you still have to find capped gear for the fights themselves... Shentok 17:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)