Talk:Paralyze (Status Effect)/Archive 1

Talk on Weapon Skill & Paralysis
I am going to put the conversations in from talk pages to here because I am tired of Talk Page hopping::

any particular reason for this revert?Mifaco 19:52, 14 February 2007 (EST)

You wrote: "Paralysis does not affect Weapon Skills." The reason I reverted this was its untrue. I have had a WS in the past canceled by paralyzed... just like when a mob can be paralyzed by using one of their TP attacks. Paralyze a crawler and you will be able to see its moves be canceled by paralysis, but watch it attempt that move again like a second later... You dont lose that TP but you will have to hit the button again. I tested this last night on Puks in Aydeewa Subterrane by getting Palsy Pollen and then having my NIN use his WS - it didn't happen often but at least once he got paralyzed. He still had his TP so he was able to try again but the weapon skill can be stopped by paralysis making that statement incorrect. --Nynaeve 21:20, 14 February 2007 (EST)

Mifaco's edit is correct. http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16294 --Aurikasura 16:31, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Actually its not seeing as I proved it the other night... It is rare... And that entire forum conversation did have some people saying they swore it did happen. Just because the vast majority says nooo I have never had it happen to me - doesn't mean it doesn't happen - esp when there are people out there who say it does and has happened. IT IS RARE BUT IT DOES HAPPEN.

I saw the crawler get paralyzed trying to do a tp move on the NIN and then have it attempt and succeed in doing it a second time and then later I saw the NINs weapon skill get paralyzed and then HE was able to do it again... No TP is lost but you can get it paralyzed.

So, just because it hasn't happened to you and maybe 50 other people doesn't make it so that it doesn't happen period... How often are you all paralyzed anyways? what are your resists? most players have some kind of resist in the forum of status buffs and whatnot that can prevent the paralysis from going off frequently...

The NIN i had was terrible and therefor prolly with the crappy gear and i had him play for a long while with no buffs other than utsusemi - so when he got paralyzed and i didnt take it off - he kept getting paralyzed... Just like his Paralyze scroll made the mob paralyzed... and the mobs TP attack was interupted...

I witnessed it - its the second time i have ever seen it happen to a PC in the four years I have been playing but I did see it. Just because you haven't - doesn't make you right... In fact that means all of you have no proof whatsoever since you have seen nothing - the lack of it doesnt mean it doesnt exist - it just means you havent experienced it. Thank you. --Nynaeve 17:15, 15 February 2007 (EST)

No, sorry, you're incorrect. Take a paralysis potion, step out of town and test it. Paralysis will never ever prevent a weaponskill from a player, nor will it prevent a monster from using a weaponskill. Since obviously it isn't possible to provide evidence that something doesn't exist, I will ask you to provide evidence that it does exist. In the meantime, the bulk of the very experienced players at BG agree that it just does not happen. When a critical mass of experienced players agree on something, the burden of proof is on you to show the contrary.

As a side note, please try to format your messages on my talk page a little nicer. Run-on paragraphs and sentences make it difficult to comprehend what you have written. --Aurikasura 17:28, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Sorry, I am currently at work and tech not supposed to be on here... So I was typing quickly. And that isn't always true. I went purposely out to test this theory once I saw it posted. I disproved it. Just because a bunch of people on some forum think one thing since they have never seen it - that doesn't make it true and experience is in the eye of the beholder.

I have been playing along time - alot of lil 75s running around in todays FFXI society havent even been around for more than a year and alot of them aren't ever even in the position to get themselves paralyzed. A mobs paralysis can be stronger than a paralysis potion. I wouldn't be so adamant about this if I didn't see it done....

The crawler example - was the crawler was readying Sticky Thread... crawler than got paralyzed... two seconds later you see it again.. Crawler readies sticky thread... Now what does that tell you? One that the crawler's TP attack can be paralyzed - second that once it is paralyzed it can do it again moments later meaning the TP doesnt go away.

This prompted me to make the stupid NIN take off Pro/Shell so all he had on was Haste... He had no elemental resists on and so we fought some puks to get the paralyze effect onto him... He got paralyzed alot - and i mean alot and only once - once did his weapon skill get interupted but he was able to do it again like two seconds later - showing that both the PC and the mob's TP attacks can in fact get paralyzed.

I will repeat - I saw it happen... I should have SS'd it but I did see it happen. I have seen mobs get paralyzed in the past and do TP attacks like that but as I said above this is only the second time in like 4 years that I have seen a PC have this happen to them and I used to be a FFXI addict who played like every single day. --Nynaeve 17:57, 15 February 2007 (EST)

First off, I seriously don't think that casting doubt on the depth of experience of the 15+ people posting on BG is a wise tack. The consensus is that it doesn't happen. Having been a 75 monk a long long long time I can personally guarantee you I've been paralyzed frequently from ice spikes and howling down in KRT and over the course of probably 1000+ weaponskills while paralyzed (most of them while wearing Scp.Harness or Scp.Harness+1, -20 to ice), I have never failed to execute the WS.

Secondly, as for a mobs paralysis being stronger than a paralysis potion, I haven't ever used a paralysis potion. Have you? What's the relative strength, compared to Hex Eye? I guess I can find out tonight. From what I've heard, however, potion-induced paralyze is brutally strong.

Thirdly, can you guarantee that the mob was not stunned during charge-up of its skill? I'm assuming that you mean flytraps instead of puks, which indicates that you are fighting in Aydeewa. Since your main character is listed as 63, I'm assuming you were there in an XP party (especially since you rag on the Ninja as well) NOT a controlled test. Therefore I am doubtful that what you saw was actually a weaponskill being halted from paralysis.

There are several reasons why a monster (or player) could stop its weaponskill, the main culprits being sleep and stun. When a mob is stunned or slept during charge-up it does not lose TP and can use the skill immediately after it becomes unstunned. Certain monsters in ToAU have rather unique AI to this regard. For example, Attercops naturally become stunned if you use a weaponskill or offensive job-ability such as chi blast or jump. This can halt weaponskill charge-up. They also gain 30 TP from chi blast (not sure about jump), which is quite unique. I can't guarantee whether or not this unique AI also affects monsters elsewhere in ToAU zones.

"I will repeat - I saw it happen... I should have SS'd it but I did see it happen" You managed to produce contrary evidence within 24 hours yet failed to screenshot it, which implies that it should be easy enough to reproduce, no? Even a clear screenshot of the unfiltered XP log would be sufficient (ie, showing the ninja readying a weaponskill twice, but never receiving a damage report from the first, and with no particular reason why the first one failed) or by repeating the experiment in a more controlled situation.

As for not posting from work / posting quickly, this is a message board not instant chat so take your time when it is available to you :) --Aurikasura 18:30, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Currently, my newest characters highest level is a 63 WHM.... I have leveled WHM to 75 before myself as a hume and I have leveled other jobs up as well... I have deleted and kept many character of high level - I am usually never satisfied with one race and dont mind starting over due to my lack of desire for the Maat cap... I have extensive WHM experience and I do not dislike NIN - I was commenting on the competency/gear choices of the one I was with that night...

And yes I was fighting in Aydeewa Subterrane just as I said on the other page and yes I was fighting Puktraps which use the AoE Paralysis Palsy Pollen... I had no one in the party to stun seeing as I was the only one with MP... It was WHM.WAR.WAR.WAR.NIN and we were just fooling around killing the Crawlers and the Puktraps for fun...

I reread your Blue Garter forum discussion now that I am at home and have more time and two pages of commenting - with some of it being irrelevant and out of topic - with some people agreeing on this end saying they have seen a mob paralyzed and lose a TP attack - and other adamantly saying it isn't so only to be contradicted by someone else - who then retort by talking down to them - I really don't see where the consensus is.... All I know is what I saw - and yes some of these players I even know from back when I played with them and discussed on that forum - but it doesn't mean they are right - it just means that they haven't seen it or weren't paying attention enough to see it. As I said - it must be really really rare for it to happen considering this is only the second time I have seen it happen to a PC - but as far as the mobs go - I have seen that happen more often... NIN Paralysis every time that I recall it though - so I do not know what that means.. I am not sure if that means that RDMs can't or haven't caused it but every time I recall seeing it is when there was a NIN doing the Paralyzing...

I am a hawk when it comes to status effects - I shoot to get them off like that - and that is why I have seen the paralysis thing... I see So and So is paralyzed and I am on it like white on rice with getting it off and that is how I saw my first mob paralyzed from doing its TP attack... I was stunned at first because I was of the impression originally that it couldn't be interrupted as well - that is something that we grew up on - everyone always said it - but I saw it and I know others who have as well... Just because you and a bunch of other players haven't doesn't mean its not true - there are hundreds upon thousands of FFXI players - 15 out of that large # doesnt equal the consensus... and doesn't mean you are right.

I am not making fun of or trying to offend anyone on your forum but I do not think that they know everything... I know that I do not know alot of things... But the things that I do know or that I have seen, I am more likely to speak up about... Just because something doesn't happen often - doesn't mean it doesn't happen... If you want to put your statement down with a verification tag - that is fine but I wasn't having that on the page accentuated when I had it proven false but apparently my word isn't good enough for you so leave it up to someone else to prove. But it shouldn't be up there w/o that verification tag seeing as there is a debate on the issue and there are people on both sides. --Nynaeve 21:51, 15 February 2007 (EST)