Talk:Samurai: Ultimate Guide by Gregedor


 * I've added the guide to the Samurai job page now. It's in at least a useable form now.  Updates will continue though. -- Gregedor


 * Wow, been a while since I contributed. Updates added. -- Gregedor


 * Well it's been another month since the last update. Was on vacation visiting my family for some of that. It's late tonight, but I'm going to post an update tomorrow. --Gregedor


 * Large update, the armor loadouts are mostly complete. --Gregedor 18:22, 5 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I did a huge reorg and worked on the look and feel some yesterday. --Gregedor 18:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I updated this earlier tonight with putting what might be a premature /DNC section in and I also incorporated Grips into the article. --Gregedor 06:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well now that my holiday travels are over and my overseas trip for work is done I have time to come back here and update a few things. --Gregedor 17:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Few minor updates to Jobs and Sample Loadouts. More updates forthcoming. --Gregedor 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Did some more editing. I think I have finally fixed all the STR/DEX convertions since they keep playing with two handed weapons.  Changed some other things since I finally got a few pieces of gear.  More updates to come. --Gregedor 11:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Very Nice Guide
This is a very nice guide you have created. I have been following this guide very closely. Recently I have achieved 75 SAM on Remora. Reading your guide recently I have noticed you are creating a section with sets of armor. I happen to have compiled a majority of setups for 6 hit, 5 hit, haste, and tank. I would love to help you and share my insight with you. You can email me or post a responce. Brettherold@sbcglobal.net

Billbab

yes indeed i learned alot from this guide thank you Gregedor

5 Hit 450 delay possible!
Crunching your formula and info I was able to assemble a 450 delay 5 hit setup.

Billbab

5 Hit Setups
I believe I addressed that briefly in the StoreTP section. It's possible, but not very practical since you have to dump a lot of other stats for more StoreTP. Usukane feet can really put you a good ways towards it without sacrificing anything. I'm still 2/3 on my Usukane feet.

-Gregedor

How much?
The real question is how much would that improve anbd show in results.

Billbab

5 Hit Setup
Well if we're using Hagun it's 74 StoreTP on at all times, even more if you're going to drop below 74 on your weaponskill. Well it becomes impossible to do a 5 hit build if you're dropping too low on the weaponskill so you're going to inherently weaken your weaponskills to maintain the higher StoreTP. For the sake of argument though, yes it is possible to have a 5 hit build.

One example is +35 from job and merits, +6 from Usukane body, +7 from Usukane feet, +8 from Hachiman kote, +6 from shinimusha haidate, +5 from Rajas ring, +1 for brutal earring, +1 from chivalrous chain and eat Arrabbiato for 5 more. This is exactly 74 StoreTP, meaning you can't take it off for your weaponskills. In your neck/earring/rings/feet/food you've not really lost anything. However, body/legs/hands have taken a dive. Usukane body does well at making up for Haubergeon but it's not quite the same. I wouldn't criticize anyone that wore it though. Wearing hachiman kote over O.kote/bando kote/dusk gloves though is a sizeable hit, especially during weaponskills where you can normally get Alkyoneus's kote for +11 strength. The legs is the biggest nose-dive of all though. Instead of Shura Haidate or Byakko's Haidate you have on a piece that all it gives is StoreTP, no other stats.

So you've gained more TP, but now you're swinging slower, doing less damager per swing, and decreased the damage on each weaponskill. You're gaining 20% more weaponskills, but you gave up 8% haste, 12 Str and 12-24 attack. So you're only about 12% faster at WS and then you're losing roughly 6% STR and 6% attack over your 6 hit build. To me it's a wash, or a slight hit, and it's far harder to implement a 5 hit build with all those Usukane pieces in there.

If you attempt to regain some of that STR and attack by dropping StoreTP on weaponskills it only means you have to wear even more StoreTP on melee hits to keep the build. This is a problem for 5 hit builds because there isn't much left out there to give you StoreTP. You're talking losing even Usukane body to go for Shinimusha Hara-ate, then grabbing Bushido Cape and Atilla's Earring just to get those last few points you need, possibly some Hachiman Kote +1.

Where the 5 hit build can work is with Futsuno Mitama. Since it gives you +8 StoreTP, which is huge, and with 480 delay only needs 54 StoreTP to reach a 5 hit build, this is entirely feasable. In fact, due to the higher delay, I wouldn't use this sword without a 5 hit build. 54 is easy to reach by comparison and you can safely drop StoreTP for damage gear on weaponskills and compensate for it. The only flaw is the weapon doesn't have the TP Bonus like Hagun does so your weaponskills will be weaker. This is compensated a bit by the higher damage on the weapon, both for WS and for melee hits. To fully make up for losing Hagun though, someone has to figure out the latent +8 STR. Unfortunately it's an AV drop so there aren't that many people who can experiment, and all the tests I've heard of haven't worked.

--Gregedor

6 hit build with 45?
I did a little calculating myself, and got the following numbers:

11.5 (450 delay TP) * 1.45 (45 Store TP) = 16.675

FFXI drops everything after the first decimal, so that becomes 16.6.

16.6 * 6 = 99.6

I did a quick test, SAM74 (Trait 25), Rajas (5), Shinimusha Haidata (6) and Shinimusha Hata-Ate (9). Exactly 45 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at 99% TP.

46 Store TP would be:

11.5 * 1.46 = 16.790 16.7 * 6 = 100.2

I added a Chivalrous Chain to the above setup, for exactly 46 Store TP. 6 hits saw me at exactly 100% TP.

Personally, from 70-74 I used the following as TP build:

Haubergeon (I agree, Hachiman Domaru has no business here) Optical Hat (Accuracy baby) Chivalrous Chain (+1) Hachiman Kote (+8) Rajas Ring (+5) Shinimusha Haidate (+6) Hachiman Sune-Ate (+5)

This, combined with my trait gives me Store TP +50. 4 over the mark, but I don't see a way to get the additional 2 I need to be able to drop the Haidate. Also, if I accidentally get a hit or three (Soboro Sukehiro) wearing my rngacc setup (for sidewinder), my TP build can usually see me to 100% still.

1 merit should be enough to be able to wear stuff like Shura or Byakko's Haidate.

--Drwilco

StoreTP Merits
The point is not 1 merit to make it good enough, but a full 5 so that you just straight up toss Shinimusha Haidate and Hachiman Kote for better stuff.

--Gregedor 17:38, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Love Halberd
What about adding this to the Polearm section?

Glamdring

Sure thing, working on adding a few weapons actually.

--Gregedor 17:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Damage reduction vs Defense
Which one is more important?

Looking around on gears as far as tanking goes, I see that the ones that you have selected definitely have more raw defense over all. But what about damage reduction? You mentioned the arhat's gi and rings but I think you could actually take it a step further.

Lets say you have the Arhat's Gi, Defense Ring, Jelly Ring, now add in the Askar Gambieras, and the new Iron Ram Lance from Campaign, and you are looking at a solid -36% damage reduction. Put high defense items and or evasion and parry items for the remaining slots, and I think you could have a pretty solid tanking setup. Hell, you could even go crazy and get a shadow mantel for additional damage reduction. With this setup, throw up defender, eat some food, keep Seigan and Third Eye up, and you can really take some serious hits. Of course, someone will still have to SATA on to you, but this build still keeps hate better than most NIN tanks can on it's own. At least that is what I think anyway. This is all kind of theoretical after all.

Tell me what you think.

--Polive

P.S. And yes, I know SAMs aren't really accepted tanks, and it's too bad too, since SE made them out to be tanks to begin with. I would really enjoy seeing an all around plausible tanking build that actually works as well as a PLD in regular situations.

- Yes, my tanking sections are pretty light at the moment. I just stopped after the defense gear that day because I was tired and didn't pick it back up. What I need to add are Damage Reduction gear like you mentioned and Evasion gear for blink tanking. I will say that the odds of a Samurai getting a defending ring (unless they have PLD or NIN) are going to be very very low.

Most times thought I only carry my god set around and swap that on. I have the Haidate and Sune-ate all the time, one for regular use and the other for those pesky NINs in Dynamis. I also take my Osode just in case I feel like switching things up. Since I'm already hauling 3/5 around, I typically just skip any other setups and just bring the full god set. It works decently well at reducing damage. These numbers are just anecdotal, but last week at Omega it meant I was taking about a ~200 damage hit versus ~300. That's a considerable reduction just from adding defense. I don't really test this section much though since it's never been my goal to tank Seiryu as a SAM lol.

I'll certainly add some other loadouts though.

--Gregedor 17:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

DNC sub
dont know if your dnc is still at 16, but a soboro sam subbing dnc is pretty much an inexhaustible well of cure IIs. For solo reasons, it is possibly one of the best combinations for low downtime and high survivability.

Yes, mine is still a sad 16, but I've updated the section to reflect reality lol. --Gregedor 22:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)